Carpet cut out too big for floor boxes...what to do?

[sparky76]

So I had 10- Wiremold 880MP floorboxes two ganged for power and datain concrete. I left the 2 gang box cover w/ carpet flange on site for the carpet guy and he cut the openings back from the box as big as the carpet flange so that now some carpet is exposed and starting to unravel. Of the 10 locations 3 or 4 are affected. The super just called and says that the carpet guy says that I told him to cut it like that. Why would I tell him to cut back for the carpet flange? I left the cover so he could make sure that it covered the opening.
Anyone know of an oversized flange that could maybe snap on the outside of the existing cover to take care of this? The covers are black. Initially the carpet guy said he would take care of it, but now he says he can't because its installed over pad. ARRRGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some days I just want to be a garbageman.

http://www.wiremold.com/shared_content/pdf/ed923.pdf

[Rewire]

Sounds like a carpet guy mistake which makes it a carpet guy problem this is like a drywall guy cutting the switch box hole to big and expecting you to buy jumbo covers time for the carpet guy to learn how to seam carpet together.

[satcom]

So I had 10- Wiremold 880MP floorboxes two ganged for power and datain concrete. I left the 2 gang box cover w/ carpet flange on site for the carpet guy

There was the mistake, leaving the cover, and not a template for the box hole, sounds like the carpet guy was just cutting to your cover, bet you don't leave any covers laying around any more. We remember a guy left a box cover for the carpet guy for 2 floors of carpet 80 floor boxes, needless to say the new tennant went wild.
We cut the carpet for the floor boxes, no problems.

[sparky76]

Of course he claims that I told him to cut it back that far. I did talk to him, but about how high the carpet pile would be.

[stickboy1375]

I dont think I would have even talked to the guy, look a hole, carpet around it... :grin:

[charlie tuna]

i would never give another trade a cover--thats asking for trouble. all the floor outlets we ever installed the carpet people would cut a small "X" over the outlet and we would trim the carpet. sounds like you need to visit the local sheet metal shop and have some stainless steel goof rings or flanges made... who pays for them will be up in the air????

[tonyou812]

Why would you let the carpet guy cut the hole. Ive must have installed a hundred floor boxes and I was the guy who cut the carpet. Havent you ever heard the expression "to many cooks can spoil the soup"? I dont like people getting their hands in my work, in the end it usually just causes problems.
I also beileve that as an electritian you need to be able to be somewhat proficent in other trades. And IMHO cutting a hole in the carpet doesnt require a tremendous amount of skill. What do you do if you need to remove a dishwasher on a service call? Call a plumber and carpender?...
Isnt that why in trade school we had to (at least my Vo tech school) take other non electrical courses.

[tonyou812]

sorry I just reread my post and it sounds a bit snooty. I didnt mean for it to come out that way.

[cschmid]

I can see you have a problem..Now comes the real fun,If you make the cover extension you are amitting your fault you eat the mistake..You the carpet guy and the GC better have a meeting with the owner..If you make stainless covers they cost some cash and then what happens if owner say yuk..sounds like carpet guy mistake but you own partial mistake so you have a percent invested here..stainless does not cut and need special drill bits..they can do regular steel and take it to body shop for baked on finish..It is on the floor make it tough..I would accept partial due to lack of proper management but not all this is not the carpet guys first job with holes in floor..I would tell carpet guy he pays for parts and you will have them built and painted and installed; he pays materials you do the labor..that way you insure the quality and fit..good luck man

[cschmid]

Why would you let the carpet guy cut the hole. Ive must have installed a hundred floor boxes and I was the guy who cut the carpet. Havent you ever heard the expression "to many cooks can spoil the soup"? I dont like people getting their hands in my work, in the end it usually just causes problems.
I also beileve that as an electritian you need to be able to be somewhat proficent in other trades. And IMHO cutting a hole in the carpet doesnt require a tremendous amount of skill. What do you do if you need to remove a dishwasher on a service call? Call a plumber and carpender?...
Isnt that why in trade school we had to (at least my Vo tech school) take other non electrical courses.

Do you cut out your own boxes in sheet rock too??why would you not expect the same work from the carpet guy you expect from the sheet rock guy..it there job I expect it done..I will trim the box if necessary but will not be responsible for some one Else's new carpet..I don't even want to trim it only do out of necessity, no willfully wanting to take ownership of carpet that was just layed..beautiful carpet job nice stretch but no anchoring around box in floor..you cut hole carpet now starts to stretch around hole because of no anchoring you now are responsible for fixing carpet job..Not happening here he is being paid to cut hole in carpet then cut it..I will trim it if necessary nothing more..not going to be my insurance paying for someone else poor workmanship..

[cadpoint]

Why don't you call the designers at Wire Mold tommorrow?

I'm sure your not the first to contact them about a situation like this, they might have a fall back solution.

[electricmanscott]

Why would you let the carpet guy cut the hole.


My guess is because he is the carpet guy.

[izak]

I would MUCH rather have carpet guy cut carpet hole...

cause if I cut it and it is wrong... My Fault.
carpet guy cuts it... well... you know

[satcom]

i would never give another trade a cover--thats asking for trouble. all the floor outlets we ever installed the carpet people would cut a small "X" over the outlet and we would trim the carpet. sounds like you need to visit the local sheet metal shop and have some stainless steel goof rings or flanges made... who pays for them will be up in the air????

Yup, worked both union, and non union jobs, high rise office buildings, they cut the small X, then we cut the opening, been that way for many years, I never seen the carpet guys trim the holes, that is why this sounds strange, I wonder what made this carpet guy deside to trim it out.

[sparky76]

What about a tile or wood floor? Do cut the opening then? In my experience carpet guys ALWAYS cut holes. You can bet I'm never going to leave a cover around or say anything more than hello to a carpet guy.

[nakulak]

the carpet guy screwed up, and the super. was asleep at the wheel, and you must be the nice guy who's been made to feel stupid and the super. who wasn't doing his job is just trying to get anyone to fix the problem, and you are it. hand him a work order to sign if he wants you to try and get some goof plates, and if he doesn't tell him to get the carpet guys to fix it cause you didn't do anything wrong.

[satcom]

the carpet guy screwed up, and the super. was asleep at the wheel, and you must be the nice guy who's been made to feel stupid and the super. who wasn't doing his job is just trying to get anyone to fix the problem, and you are it. hand him a work order to sign if he wants you to try and get some goof plates, and if he doesn't tell him to get the carpet guys to fix it cause you didn't do anything wrong.


Like he said move on, I have never seen the carpet guys cut the trim, they only leave a little X

Wiremould makes a flang thet is sold seperate from the box assy, you may want to give tech support a call to see if they can help, as the above said the super just want it done, they are only 10 holes, I would not get excited or loose sleep, just offet to help find a way to resolve it in the AM.

[JohnME]

What does being union or non union have to do with anything? I dont screw with other peoples work, and I get downright angry if someone has touched mine. The carpet guys cut the holes. The sheet rocker cuts the holes. I trim out.

[satcom]

What does being union or non union have to do with anything? I dont screw with other peoples work, and I get downright angry if someone has touched mine. The carpet guys cut the holes. The sheet rocker cuts the holes. I trim out.

If you have seen both jobs, done by union, and non union workers, you may notice neither group cuts the carpet holes for floor boxes, what we see is they cut a slit in the form of an X which the electrician trims to fit the box, the reason they make the slit , is when they lay the carpet the slit marks the hole so the electrician knows where to trim out.

[George Stolz]

What does being union or non union have to do with anything?
Nothing at all, and I have deleted a few comments along those lines.

This is about carpets, who cuts the hole, and what the original poster should do about his predicament, leave the union stuff out of it.

[nakulak]

Nothing at all, and I have deleted a few comments along those lines.

This is about carpets, who cuts the hole, and what the original poster should do about his predicament, leave the union stuff out of it.


dangit. I thought I was gonna get to learn something here about the blessings, virtues and pitfalls of union vs nonuinion carpet holes.

[George Stolz]

LOL

Carpet holes know no race, creed or color. We can learn a lot from carpet holes. :D

[romexking]

The reason carpet guys only cut X's in the carpet is because we let them. If you had the opportunity to run all of your conduit and cabling in the ceiling unsupported, and then said it's the ceiling guy's responsibility, don't you think most would try to get away with it. Just as there are times when we have to get cut sheets for fixtures, equipment and gear, let the floor guys get a cut sheet for the proper trimming of carpet or flooring. Why should we have to do other trades' work? I would tell the GC "why would I tell the guy to cut to the cover when I know better? It's a shame that he isn't bright enough to figure his own "trade" out, but that's not my problem." I would help resolve the problem, but would be getting paid to do so, or the carpet guy can install new carpet.

Sparky, you are not at fault one bit.

[weressl]

i would never give another trade a cover--thats asking for trouble. all the floor outlets we ever installed the carpet people would cut a small "X" over the outlet and we would trim the carpet. sounds like you need to visit the local sheet metal shop and have some stainless steel goof rings or flanges made... who pays for them will be up in the air????

Or go to Hobby Lobby and have mahogony frames made. Will look classy:cool:

[charlie tuna]

get a price on the "goof rings" -- call the gc and get him to approve the purchase cost of them to be passed onto the carpet contractor. you will have to untrim and retrim the outlets to install the rings. kind of split the costs???

[romexking]

get a price on the "goof rings" -- call the gc and get him to approve the purchase cost of them to be passed onto the carpet contractor. you will have to untrim and retrim the outlets to install the rings. kind of split the costs???

kind of split the costs..NOT!! This is why EC's are looked upon as pushovers. If we install something wrong, do we ever get paid for redoing it...I never have. If we pull the wrong size conductors to a piece of equipment on the verbal info suppplied by others, do we get paid for fixing it? I don't think so. Missing a neutral to an ice tea brewer...so sad, too bad we are told by the GC.

It doesn't matter if a plate was left or not, everyone has a job to do, and to do it properly. If they didn't want to take the time to check for the proper measurements, well tough luck for them. After all, a plate was left, maybe they should have checked after the first cut. It's not like checking the fit would even been as complicated as tying your shoes. We as EC's far too often take it upon ourselves to do everything possible to make the job go smoothly and everyone else's job easier. While this is commendable, it isn't profitable. I never see other contractors get led by their noses and kicked in the butt by the GC the way the EC's usually are. If fact, I bet dollars to doughnuts that the carpet contractor will even get paid to repair his screwed up work.

My take on it is that you had nothing to do with cutting carpet, and therefore it's not your problem to worry about without compensation. Now with that said, you might want to start documenting your conversations with the GC about this. After all, they have your money, and they may want to try to backcharge you for "your mistake".

[MAK]

Of course he claims that I told him to cut it back that far. I did talk to him, but about how high the carpet pile would be.

Good thing you did not tell him to jump off a bridge (doubt he would get that right)!:D
http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/bridge-jump-bellyflop.html

[lanowets]

Wow, i am glad i ran across this. I am onsite PM on a project we got 1500 floor boxes to put in. Just something else to think about

[romexking]

Wow, i am glad i ran across this. I am onsite PM on a project we got 1500 floor boxes to put in. Just something else to think about

Just think how much money you may have saved your contractor. If your estimated labor hours included trimming the carpet, you could simply give the GC a cut sheet for the boxes, and instruct them (in writing) to forward to the flooring contractor. This way you will look like you are a proactive, responsible, caring PM. If your hours didn't include the trimming, by broaching the subject now, by providing a cut sheet, you may head off a confrontation later when the trimming has to be done by your guys in order to stay ahead of schedule. Either way, 1500 boxes X 15 min to trim X labor rate is a lot of money that you will either save or pay depending on who trims the flooring. I bet that the flooring contractor doesn't even know anything about your floor boxes, and will try anything to get out of trimming the carpet.

[quogueelectric]

dangit. I thought I was gonna get to learn something here about the blessings, virtues and pitfalls of union vs nonuinion carpet holes.
Like in the army DO NOT VOLENTEER FOR ANYTHING you are not a carpet contractor so dont try to be one!!

[infinity]

The reason carpet guys only cut X's in the carpet is because we let them.


I couldn't agree more. The carpet guy would skip cutting the X too if you let him. We tell the GC that we don't cut carpet, just like we don't cut electric lock sets into $5000 Mahogany doors either. That's the other trade's job not ours.

Regarding carpet, the stuff isn't titanium. A good carpet guy should be able to patch the carpet by removing a piece around the box and installing a new one with the proper sized cutout. He created the mess let him fix it.

[sparky76]

I appreciate all your repsonses. We're past playing the blame game. Its pretty obvious that the carpet guy screwed up. He says that because the carpet is over pad and not glue down, that cutting out the carpet and replacing it would not be a workable permanent solution. I'm trying to help out the super so that he doesn't have to face the nightmare of replacing the carpet.
I had my warehouse salesman contact wiremold....they don't have anything to help. So I'm looking to you all again. Does anyone know of an existing product that will fix this?

[mdshunk]

Does anyone know of an existing product that will fix this?
Man, this really stinks for all of you. My next choice would be to get a quote from a local sheet metal shop or fabrication shop about making you some oversized goof rings out of brass or whatever the metal finish is, and sandwich that goof ring between the actual Wiremold cover and the carpet. I know it's not really your problem to solve, but it is big of you to take ownership of the issue. It would be easy to say, "carpet guys problem, see ya later", but that might not always be the appropriate posture.