Industrial Project

[mtnelectrical]

Is there any law, ordinance, or whatever it is to rules when a project have to be done by a union shop? Please be nice with your answers, Thanks

[ITO]

NO, but there may be a prevailing wage that you will have to pay, and prove via certified payroll reports.

Review your bid documents carefully.

[petersonra]

Is there any law, ordinance, or whatever it is to rules when a project have to be done by a union shop? Please be nice with your answers, Thanks

technically, no.

as a practical matter, in many areas of the country a non-union shop is as a practical matter frozen out of many projects.

[Rewire]

Some projects have a PLA or Project Labor Agreement which sets the wage and benefit package.

[mtnelectrical]

I have not done any industrial work so far as an EC, and I wonder if I could do this project without the fear of being stop because I am not a union shop.

[76nemo]

Who's to say you have to be unionized? I have to be brief on this. This forum does not tolerate union vs. non.. What are your tasks at hand?

[mtnelectrical]

Well I had the impression that large projects were done only by union shops, and I thought that the expertise of the members of this forum would help me to clear my doubts and It is not my intention to start a fire here.
Well I am working in relocate a machine shop/service company to a new building, probably around 30 machines, existing service 208/120 3 ph 800 Amps in old building. Machines ranging from 40 HP to 2 HP, probably I will install 4 power panel around new building (3 of 225 Amps and one of 400 Amps) The service in the new building is only 400 Amps 208/120.

[emahler]

unless the company specifies that only a union contractor works for them, don't worry...some of your best small non-union contractors were once some of the best union electricians money could buy...

[ITO]

Well I had the impression that large projects were done only by union shops...

That may have had some truth to it years ago, along with the myth that only union shops were able to do quality work, but I have seen many big jobs taken away from me by open shops, done successfully with quality workmanship.

IBEW in Dallas is down to 3% market share...open shops do the rest of the work... which means most of the big jobs are non-union.

[Minuteman]

technically, no.

as a practical matter, in many areas of the country a non-union shop is as a practical matter frozen out of many projects.
However, if you have your apprentices in an "approved" school, with similar wage and benefit packages, than you can work on ANY job.

I know of one shop that is doing a Federal job that has no benefit package, but more than matches the total package, just by what they pay per hour.

[cschmid]

the only way union is required if the indusrial complex has union employees and they have negotiated with management that only union shops work there..the concept is that with union you can do bigger jobs and go to union shop get labor and at end of job send labor back to union hall..just helps control your labor costs..

[Minuteman]

the only way union is required if the indusrial complex has union employees and they have negotiated with management that only union shops work there..the concept is that with union you can do bigger jobs and go to union shop get labor and at end of job send labor back to union hall..just helps control your labor costs..
Yea, that the way it was at the car plant here. I have worked there on a project and only organized labor could work there.


Now that plant is closed.

[zog]

Yea, that the way it was at the car plant here. I have worked there on a project and only organized labor could work there.


Now that plant is closed.

Thats how they all are in Detroit, and now most of them are closed or being closed and moved.

[ITO]

...the concept is that with union you can do bigger jobs and go to union shop get labor and at end of job send labor back to union hall..just helps control your labor costs..

That sounds great in theory, but it does not quite work like you think it should. All types of shops have issues finding labor, which is a whole other thread here about what is happening to our trade.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Thats how they all are in Detroit, and now most of them are closed or being closed and moved.

Yes, it's a sad testement as our great nation inches deeper and deeper back towards a robber baron society.

[emahler]

That sounds great in theory, but it does not quite work like you think it should. All types of shops have issues finding labor, which is a whole other thread here about what is happening to our trade.

it's all managements fault....they expect everyone to produce..that's the problem....

[cschmid]

thats right it is some Else's fault the great down fall of our society..so when does it become your responsibility..

In theory the union was suppose to be like that for contractor..have a huge pool of qualified people to choose from to do the work..Yet with the large quantity of people came some huge financial burden..So it did not pan out the way it was intended..Yet it still works for many and successfully..

So If you can handle the size of the job you bid and complete it according to the package it is free for all to win union nonunion alike..

[Rewire]

I love capitolism.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I love capitolism.

Apparently not when employees practice it.

[ITO]

Wow, with that sour attitude at home playing on the computer all day... and you wonder what happed to your market share. I guess that's our fault to huh?

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Wow, with that sour attitude at home playing on the computer all day... and you wonder what happed to your market share. I guess that's our fault to huh?

I work nights. Lots of free time to play all day. Or do sidework. :wink:

[ITO]

One of the finer points some people seem to miss is we are in the same boat, your market share is mine too, what bad things happen to me, happen to you, and vies-versa. Complain all you want, pepper these forums with your sour comments and robber barren rhetoric all you like, but none of that will make either of our mutual situations better and it only serves to widen a divide that is at the root of why we both are in this shrinking boat watching good work go the other way. Across the board, in almost every market in this country, market share is an issue for people like us…think about it.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Now who has the sour attitude?

[tonyou812]

Yes, it's a sad testement as our great nation inches deeper and deeper back towards a robber baron society.
It almost seems like its human nature to abuse power. Im sure there are unions that are good and really work but many of them seem to be going down. The whole US auto industry is going down the tubes. GM is being choked by its own system. I guess when you pay a guy $60 dollars an hour for pushing a broom and a retirement package with lifetime health bennies as a company your really not getting your bang for your buck.

And how many guys in Electrical Union in Jersey are ridding the bench? I bet there gonna milk that "Zanadu" Project for all its worth. Im not really a big fan of the big Union anyway. A few years ago my boss got a project that they thought was going to be theirs. So after we started the project they showed up with their big rat and started harrassing us. We had to all meet at the shop and take a van together cause things started to happen to our personal vehicles. Then one night they payed us a visit by slashing the tires of 5 trucks (box vans) and broke all the windows. There kind of like home grown terrorist.

So my boss was finally "forced" to agree to hire some of these guys to appease the big wigs so they would stop with the "shock and Aw". And that was when the real fun started. Material went missing, tools droped from great heights, all sorts of things. Id be shocked if the old man made any money on that project.

(And three, two, one).............counting down till Iwire edits this post so read quickly guys...........the master of propoganda is about to do his evil work..........That one was for you Dennis:D

[jrannis]

That may have had some truth to it years ago, along with the myth that only union shops were able to do quality work, but I have seen many big jobs taken away from me by open shops, done successfully with quality workmanship.

IBEW in Dallas is down to 3% market share...open shops do the rest of the work... which means most of the big jobs are non-union.

Maybe in Texas things are like that.
In the industrial NE and other producing areas, it might not be wise to step on the big guys toes. Those areas need that type of infastructure. I see a factor such as access to a well trained local and national labor pool as still being something of value.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

It almost seems like its human nature to abuse power. Im sure there are unions that are good and really work but many of them seem to be going down. The whole US auto industry is going down the tubes. GM is being choked by its own system. I guess when you pay a guy $60 dollars an hour for pushing a broom and a retirement package with lifetime health bennies as a company your really not getting your bang for your buck.

I doubt GM is paying anyone $60.00 for pushing a broom. For the likes of Ford, GM, etc, if they can't pay livable wages, why should they be able to stay in business? I'm pricing a new Ford. $35,000 for an F-150. A New Caddy costs $60,000.00. If they're not making money, something is very wrong.

Even a contractor has to admit, there isn't much of a motive for the CEO's of these corporations to make positive changes when they're going to make their contracted salaries, stock options (even retroactive) and balloon retirements no matter how the company performs.

[iwire]

Thank to all the members that tried to answer the OPs question, this thread ran a while without getting of track. :)

Now that OP has gotten his answer and the thread has turned more political in nature it is time to close.

You all are more them welcome to continue the conversation via PMs.