who owns the tools you use

[-marty]

When I started in the trade you owned the tools you carried on your tool belt. Now it seems that EC's want you to own your own power tools. One EC in the neighborhood wants his guys to own their own 4" ko punch.

What's the norm?

thanks

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Whatever "the norm" is, 4" KO punch is not it.

[ITO]

4" KO set is excessive IMHO, but I would like to see cordless screw guns as part of a Journeyman's tool list.

[growler]

What's the norm?

thanks

There is no norm. The biggest tool I would supply as a working electrician with no ownership in the company would be a small cordless drill.

I have always believed that a company should supply everything that doesn't fit in a tool bag. I will admit that I have done some work for companies that didn't see it that way.:-?

[220/221]

That was one of the good rules (in theory) that the IBEW laid out.

They had a list of tools that you were required to own and anything not on the list had to be supplied by the contractor.

Of course they were extremely slow to update that list. I have no idea if they have since my experience in 1975. I know that the "wobbly" (speed screwdriver for installing devices) was not on the list at the time and the people in charge didn't want it to be. "We sell labor" was their theory and anything that reduced labor costs was counter productive.

I provide everything but hand tools for my guys.

[cowboyjwc]

I was required to have and maintain my own hand tools, but everything else was supplied by the boss. He was pretty cool though, I would usually buy my tools at the wholesale house (that was the only place you used to be able to get Klien's out here) on his account and he would just take it out of my check and then sometimes he wouldn't.

[Rewire]

Not to promote one brand over another but I supply all tools other than side tools.I Use Dewalt 18v battery tools so all tools use the same batteries this makes it convienient when more than one guy is on a job.Some guys have personal impact 14v drills.I tell everyone that I do not need any drama on the job so don't loan your personal drill because it could get damaged.I had one guy bringa bag of battery tools to work and when the apprentice picked up he put the bag in the back of the truck and it rained on them this guy comes in my office complaining about his wet tools I told him to leave the bag at home.

[quogueelectric]

Each IBEW local has thier own tool list that covers what you can and cannot carry in your toolbox. The contract usually states that small hand tools provided by the contractor can be carried in the box. Most guys I know have a tool or two that they are not supposed to. However the tool list is to discourage someone from providing his own threading machine so he doesnt get laid off before the other guy with only a cordless drill.

[Rewire]

Each IBEW local has thier own tool list that covers what you can and cannot carry in your toolbox. The contract usually states that small hand tools provided by the contractor can be carried in the box. Most guys I know have a tool or two that they are not supposed to. However the tool list is to discourage someone from providing his own threading machine so he doesnt get laid off before the other guy with only a cordless drill.
I always thought it funny that a no-dog was not on the tool list but you could buy one at the hall from the BA

[dSilanskas]

:mad: I used to work for a company that wanted you to buy whatever tool you needed that was electric anyway. I left when he told me I had to buy my own hole hog. I mean something that expensive that you bought and your using on his job to make him a lot of money I think is wrong. If it breaks you need to pay to get it fixed now them

[cschmid]

You need to provide your own hand tools..we provide everything else..you break your hand tool at work we replace it..But we also have a rule that you do not do side jobs..you work for us..the bonus is you can use our tools to work on your own personal projects at home..

[romexking]

We have a tool list that among the standard hand tools, our guys are required to provide a cordless drill (not a 5 piece kit), several different test meters such as digital multimeter, an clamp on ammeter, a toner kit, VDV line tester (cost about $100). We also require up to a 2" hand KO set, but I don't enforce that one!

I've heard of a local company that requires it's new resi rope slingers to provide all power tools and ladders...that is abolutely re-gosh-darn-diculus!

[Rewire]

I allow one new hand tool a month on me. I have a shop pouch for apprentices and the use it till they aquire the needed side tools.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I always thought it funny that a no-dog was not on the tool list but you could buy one at the hall from the BA

The point is, the contractor cannot require you to have a no-dog. If he insists you use one, he must supply it. If he supplys it, there's no problem with you keeping it in your tool bag if that's their policy.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

We have a tool list that among the standard hand tools, our guys are required to provide a cordless drill (not a 5 piece kit), several different test meters such as digital multimeter, an clamp on ammeter, a toner kit, VDV line tester (cost about $100). We also require up to a 2" hand KO set, but I don't enforce that one!

I've heard of a local company that requires it's new resi rope slingers to provide all power tools and ladders...that is abolutely re-gosh-darn-diculus!

You can see where this is headed. IMO asking a journeyman to provide a cordless drill is WAY over the line. Any power tool. Now it's ladders? Ammeter? How often is that needed that every employee should have that in their personal arsenal?

[romexking]

You can see where this is headed. IMO asking a journeyman to provide a cordless drill is WAY over the line. Any power tool. Now it's ladders? Ammeter? How often is that needed that every employee should have that in their personal arsenal?

I didn't say that I require ladders, but as for the ammeter, that can be used very frequently when troubleshooting. Sure, when you install conduit, and pull wire all day an ammeter is not needed often, but when you are doing service work it is. Although you might, I don't find it unreasonable for our techs to supply a battery drill. I also require them to buy black shoes and a black belt...it that way over the line also? Together they cost about the same as drill.

I suppose everyone will have a justification for a particular tool list that will seem reasonable to some and outragous to others.

[quogueelectric]

I always thought it funny that a no-dog was not on the tool list but you could buy one at the hall from the BA
I bought the greenlee bending level it has the no dog built in. You can always use a short piece of strut and a clamp but the nodog is just easier.I always joke around that the BA bought a new boat and named it the general fund. Some dont think its that funny. If you take the job you gotta expect people to take shots at you now and then purely in jest though.

[djohns6]

I'm fortunate . My company buys everything except my jeans , underwear , and shoes . :D

We all have a few personal tools in our bags and toolboxes though .

[electricalperson]

:mad: I used to work for a company that wanted you to buy whatever tool you needed that was electric anyway. I left when he told me I had to buy my own hole hog. I mean something that expensive that you bought and your using on his job to make him a lot of money I think is wrong. If it breaks you need to pay to get it fixed now them
every single tool i use at my job is mine. i have my own hole hawg, meters, megger, hole punch up to 1-1/4,sockets, etc. only thing the company provides is pipe benders and snakes. i also use my own fish sticks. im even on my second 36 volt dewalt kit...

[FNCnca]

I'm fortunate . My company buys everything except my jeans , underwear , and shoes . :D

We all have a few personal tools in our bags and toolboxes though .


I am fortunate as well. My company supplies all my tools, my clothes and my shoes. The underwear is my responsibility.
However I have everything I need, then some, at home, just in case.

[knaack134]

I always thought it funny that a no-dog was not on the tool list but you could buy one at the hall from the BA
I do not speak for the entire Ibew. But here, we have a "suggested" tool list. You can have and carry tools not on the list(most do). IMO, if it doesn't fit in a two foot long tool bag or a five gallon bucket, you should not be expected to provide it "every day". And before anyone misconstrues my words I would like to add one thing. I have a company van and gas card, I purchased many of the tools (that are not on the list) that I haul around allday.
On the stricly economic side of things, how can guys be productive without even a small hand drill. How much money do contractors want to lose by having guys(on the clock) running around without tools. Contractors who do not provide power tools are chasing pennies and letting the dollars slip away.

[cschmid]

I personally provide my own tools completely..my own cordless, hammer drill, jig saw, sawzall, corded drill, benders, fish tapes, ect.. the whole works..just because i have them and they grow old with or with out being used..we do not require you to own them..you get them assigned and you are responsible for them please treat them like you own them thank You...:)

So you could require all kinds of stuff but penny wise and dollar foolish leaves bad taste in employees mouth..If employee finds tool that he likes and buys and really is efficient for shop to own we buy them for everyone..he keeps his we agree if it is damaged we replace it like we do with other tools and give him some cash for the idea..everyone happy..happy employees make productive employees productive employees make good business..that is good management

[76nemo]

every single tool i use at my job is mine. i have my own hole hawg, meters, megger, hole punch up to 1-1/4,sockets, etc. only thing the company provides is pipe benders and snakes. i also use my own fish sticks. im even on my second 36 volt dewalt kit...

Same here, I work for myself, when I get called for a service and don't have the right tool, running to the supply house doesn't cut it.
On the other hand, no one, I mean no one borrows my tools. I hate saying no, but it is how it is. No hard feelings:cool:

[ITO]

I don't mind furnishing tools, the heartburn starts when my tools are abused, "lost", and stolen. Most men would not use a boring bit still in the chuck as a pry bar, or the back of a drill as a hammer if it were their own tool, but think nothing of doing it to mine.

How come when I buy $250 14v cordless Bosh drills they get "lost" or stolen to the tune of about 3 per month, but when I buy $79 skill cordless drills there has not been one "lost" in over a year?

If there were more accountability, there would be more and better tools for my crews.

[SiddMartin]

The company Im with gives a list of handtools you need to have, then provide $200 /yr tool allow to purch any handtools / boots / whatever job related. I have my own hand tools / sockets / klein ratchet cutters / fish sticks / self level laser etc.. All power and other crap is provided by them, that way you can beat the crap outta it and then get another one.:)

[76nemo]

With you guys who do service work, does your company at least buy all of your PPE?

[mengelman]

I require my employees to furnish thier own tools. The reason for this is they will take care of thier own tool better than mine. I will go out and buy all the tool they need and finance for no intrest and they can pay me back at 25.00 a week. I furnish ladders because I dont want anyone using a ragged looking ladder on one of my jobs. If they break a tool on the job I have no problem repairing it for them. If they hand me a worn out drill bit I will give them a new one. If they loose it its on them. My guys seem to like owning thier own tools.

[SiddMartin]

my company provides all PPE

[electricalperson]

With you guys who do service work, does your company at least buy all of your PPE?
my company doesnt give us PPE gear. we have a set sitting at a place that would like us to wear it. my company doesnt even have a set in the shop. i worked in 800 amp 480v 3 phase panels with no ppe gear what so ever. im ashamed to say that but thats how it is. i dont know what a set cost but i want to get some someday for myself. i cant believe i just admitted to putting myself at such a risk of being burned alive. but on the bright side i do wear insulated gloves when i tie in services after i finish changing them:roll:

[hockeyoligist2]

I'm fortunate . My company buys everything except my jeans , underwear , and shoes . :D

We all have a few personal tools in our bags and toolboxes though .

My company provides uniforms, $100 a year towards boot purchase and all tools. I still have about $500 worth of personal tools that they don't think are necessary on my truck, just for convenience.

[electricalperson]

My company provides uniforms, $100 a year towards boot purchase and all tools. I still have about $500 worth of personal tools that they don't think are necessary on my truck, just for convenience.
my company said my meter is a waste of money. same with my megger. same with any tool i have. cordless dremel for removing red paint from steel beams? WASTE OF MONEY! anyone wonder why i want to leave?

[tonyou812]

4" KO set is excessive IMHO, but I would like to see cordless screw guns as part of a Journeyman's tool list.
I agree. Most of the EC's I worked for it was part of your tool list even for apprentices. IMHO most guys dont take care of them as well if they own it. And they can get expensive especially when chargers and batteries get left behind on jobs.

[Flatbed]

We have a tool list as well. It is quite surprising to see how long drills will last now that people own them. The company does replace any broken tool. My general rule is "Any tool that that streamlines the job... Is worth it."

[stevenj76]

I provided almost all of it.

My dewalt 18V fat pack, the hole hog, one time the boss got mad and said we were going to have to supply ship augers too! I've even got a milwaukee hammer drill and portaband for work.

He had a box of almost 100 dull ship augers, I just sharpened those up like a razor and threw them in my caddy.

I've got tackle boxes for rough and trim full of misc parts, like say hooking up a furnace and such.

The point is: after acquiring every possible combination of tools for new construction residential, remodel, and some small TI jobs, Hell, I've never wanted for tools or misc. parts when doing a side job.

After crossing over and sticking to the tool list, most of my goodies are idle in the garage.

[76nemo]

my company doesnt give us PPE gear. we have a set sitting at a place that would like us to wear it. my company doesnt even have a set in the shop. i worked in 800 amp 480v 3 phase panels with no ppe gear what so ever. im ashamed to say that but thats how it is. i dont know what a set cost but i want to get some someday for myself. i cant believe i just admitted to putting myself at such a risk of being burned alive. but on the bright side i do wear insulated gloves when i tie in services after i finish changing them:roll:


Never be ashamed of admitting anything. Be ashamed of not being willing to change.

SAFETY FIRST!!!!

[brian john]

My guys supply basic hand tools, I buy them anything else they want. I was replacing their hand tools as broke or were lost. But it got ridiculous with some guys buying screwdrivers every week, so I stopped that perk.

Sockets, torque wrenches, wrenches are all on me.

[76nemo]

my company said my meter is a waste of money. same with my megger. same with any tool i have. cordless dremel for removing red paint from steel beams? WASTE OF MONEY! anyone wonder why i want to leave?


You're a better man than I. If someone threw something that ignorant on my lap, somebody's feelings are going to be hurt. Does your company not double check installs and do service work:-?

[electricalperson]

You're a better man than I. If someone threw something that ignorant on my lap, somebody's feelings are going to be hurt. Does your company not double check installs and do service work:-?
i double check my work no matter how many times ive done it or no matter what someone else thinks. doesnt really matter to me if the boss is yelling because im checking a feeder i just pulled in with a megger

[electricalperson]

Never be ashamed of admitting anything. Be ashamed of not being willing to change.

SAFETY FIRST!!!!
trust me if something is not safe im not doing it. whats more important, my life or 1000 dollars for a PPE kit and spending a few minutes testing

[76nemo]

trust me if something is not safe im not doing it. whats more important, my life or 1000 dollars for a PPE kit and spending a few minutes testing

Although some may not agree, that is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear from you or anyone!

Nicely said EP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jrannis]

The reason for the IBEW tool list is that, on large jobs guys leave their tools in the gang box overnight and on weekends.
Sometimes, either the gang boxes get broken into or completely stolen. Its required that the contractor replace any tools that were stolen from a secure storage. Usually only the tools that were on the tool list are bought as replacements. The arrangement saves lots of misunderstandings.
Any time or labor saving tool or device is provided and replaced by the contractor and maintained by the electricians

[brian john]

my company said my meter is a waste of money. same with my megger. same with any tool i have. cordless dremel for removing red paint from steel beams? WASTE OF MONEY! anyone wonder why i want to leave?


Your boss is a hack, hopefully you can get on with a company that appreciates your education, training and professionalism.

[khixxx]

My first task at a new job was to order my tools. I think it was about $1600 worth. Mostly handtools. I was responsible for them when I left. They sent my DVM out for testing annually along with my other PPE. They gave us uniforms, and boots. Pretty nice set up. I guess I got spoiled. when I left that company to go to a new one I called in the shop asking about a lock out set. I was questioned like I was trying to steel something. I had to supply everything when I was at that company. Power and larger tools they supplied. For what it was worth I just brought my own junk in. I only stayed there for about 1.5 years.

Now I just show up with no hand tools just a warm body to companies :) much easier this way.

I guess it comes down to how bad someone needs work done and how bad you want to work when it comes to who supplies the tools.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Foreman: "Who are you?"
Joe : "The new guy. Joe."
Foreman: "Where are your tools?"
Joe: "My partner has 'em."
Foreman: "Who is your partner?"
Joe: "You didn't give me one yet."
:grin:

[Rewire]

Foreman: "Who are you?"
Joe : "The new guy. Joe."
Foreman: "Where are your tools?"
Joe: "My partner has 'em."
Foreman: "Who is your partner?"
Joe: "You didn't give me one yet."
:grin:
were is my tool buddie

[kkwong]

Lemme see if I can remember...

Me: All basic hand tools, testing equipment (meter, plug tester), bags, and sawzall, drill etc. Basically the stuff I used everyday.

Them: Hole Hawg, KO set, portabands, benders, meggars and telecom test equip.

[tkb]

When I started out in the trade a Brace and Bit was on the tool list. Also a Yankee screwdriver.

I worked for many companies ans saw these items on their tool lists well into the late 80's and erly 90's.

[iaov]

Same here, I work for myself, when I get called for a service and don't have the right tool, running to the supply house doesn't cut it.
On the other hand, no one, I mean no one borrows my tools. I hate saying no, but it is how it is. No hard feelings:cool:Same here. I work for myself and all my tools are mine. I love these tools. They help me to keep eating every day and living indoors.I don't lend them out just like I don't lend my wife out. I worked on a big commercial project a while back and was surprised by how many of the "electricians" didn't even own a 1/2 in. conduit bender, much less power drills, sawzalls, etc.Every once in a while some one complains about how much I charge and when I tell them it takes thousands of dollars worth of tools to do what I do I think it helps them to understand. More so than explaining my education,experience,etc.:)

[480sparky]

Over the years of my working for other EC's, I managed to collect (or, shall I say, get to buy forcibly) a great arsenal of tools. Drills, ladders, KO sets, meters, locator, telcom butt set, toner, IR thermometer, etc. etc. I did, however, take my own high-$ tools to the job sites back then, but only when I was to use them, and they went home with me at the end of the day. I did this for my own convenience and not to put money in the boss's pockets.

If I was asked by the boss to bring a tool, I would simply ask, "Do you want me to send you a bill for the rental, or do you simply want to add it to my paycheck?" Made my point crystal clear.

When I ended up hanging out my own shingle, I was already far better equipped (both in quantity and quality) than most of the large outfits in town.

[tyha]

We supplied the battery drills until we noticed that we were replacing about 2 a month from theft and misuse. So we ended that

[tonyou812]

I dont mean to change the topic but the supply house that I frequent sells "Metabo" hammerdrills. They are a bit more expensive than alot of the ones at Big Orange. Has anyone used one of these tools? and what do you think of them? I would imagine that they are good only for the fact that they are not made in China. I beileve Metabo's are made in Germany. That is probably a sign of a good tool. any opinions. I am in the market for a heavy hammer drill and any help would be great.

[mdshunk]

Metabo history video. The company name isn't pronounced the way you'd think:

http://www.metabousa.com/Metabo-Corporate-Video-Kopie-1.21019.0.html

I think my next wall chaser will be a Metabo.

[tonyou812]

Marc you are the undisputed king of Google. Thanks for the info, my friend had purchased a Bosh hammer drill for HD and it burned out after a couple of months, these look like the real deal.

[mdshunk]

... my friend had purchased a Bosh hammer drill for HD and it burned out after a couple of months, these look like the real deal.
Bosch is a fine name. What I'd rather think is that he bought the wrong drill for the duty he was putting it to. These things have a max diameter that they're designed for. I know for a fact that many hammer drills have been burned up by using them to drill diameters they were never intended to. The pistol grip hammer drills, for instance, normally only have a 3/8" max. The one's that look like a "real" hammer drill, but come with a cheap price, normally have a 7/8" max. You really got to look at that closely and think about what you're going to be drilling. I buy one that will do up to a 2" regular twist masonry bit, and up to a 6" thinwall core bit. Pretty hard to burn one of them up.

[tonyou812]

I would have to agree on that miss use

[BryanMD]

I dont mean to change the topic but the supply house that I frequent sells "Metabo" hammerdrills. They are a bit more expensive than alot of the ones at Big Orange. Has anyone used one of these tools? and what do you think of them? I would imagine that they are good only for the fact that they are not made in China. I beileve Metabo's are made in Germany. That is probably a sign of a good tool. any opinions. I am in the market for a heavy hammer drill and any help would be great.

I've only used two Metabo tools (corded hammer drill, angle grinder) and that was in the early 90's so things may have changed some since then. But my experience was that the tool was no better than the B&D Industrial (now called DeWalt) or the Milwaukee tools we otherwise used BUT! man oh man were their part prices high and worse yet, were very hard to get.

[Okie Sparky]

I'm a pawn shop junkie, but particular about what I buy at a pawn shop. I found a Metabo hammer drill in a pawn shop for $125. I think it is the biggest one Metabo makes. A friend, who is in the concrete business, said it is probably a $700-$800 hammer drill. It is a very good drill, very good quality.
I also have a couple of Bosch hammer drills. Very good also. Just don't let some gorilla looking guy get hold of 'em.

[jrannis]

Marc you are the undisputed king of Google. Thanks for the info, my friend had purchased a Bosh hammer drill for HD and it burned out after a couple of months, these look like the real deal.

Friend of mine pulled out his brand new BOSH hammer drill. I thought it was really nice worked very well. I plugged it into my 1800 watt inverter... nothing, not a peep. Plugged it into the building power, worked fine.

I dont think that BOSH product is the right brand for me knowing it will not work on an inverter.

[Ed Carr]

I use all Makita corded & cordless.
Who owns them?
My wife, I bought them all for her! :grin: :grin:

[peter d]

I provide my hand tools, and that's it. My boss provides all the power tools.

[HighWirey]

Friend of mine pulled out his brand new BOSH hammer drill. I thought it was really nice worked very well. I plugged it into my 1800 watt inverter... nothing, not a peep. Plugged it into the building power, worked fine.

I dont think that BOSH product is the right brand for me knowing it will not work on an inverter.

Most invertors are kinda panzies when it comes to starting a large load such as your BOSCH. Don't rule BOSCH out because of an insufficent power source.

Best Wishes Everyone

[HighWirey]

were is my tool buddie

In the old days, that is why every JW carryied only pair ! ! !

Best Wishes Everyone

[HighWirey]

My guys supply basic hand tools, I buy them anything else they want. I was replacing their hand tools as broke or were lost. But it got ridiculous with some guys buying screwdrivers every week, so I stopped that perk.

Sockets, torque wrenches, wrenches are all on me.

A tool list can bite an employer both ways.

Most of my men met me half-way. And I treated them in kind.

Best Wishes Everyone

[jrannis]

Most invertors are kinda panzies when it comes to starting a large load such as your BOSCH. Don't rule BOSCH out because of an insufficent power source.

Best Wishes Everyone

I have run the big demo hammer that comes on the two wheel dolly off of the same inverter, Also routinely operate my greenlee tugger off of it. The power source is more than enough. I think it must have to do with the type of motor the BOSH has in it.
The BOSCH drill was a small 1/2" hammerdrill. The inverter has enough power to kill a horse!

[HaskinsElectric]

I own ALL the tools my employees use. Tool belts, screwdrivers, the works. My guys are new arrivals to our marvelous country and are struggling with our language, our culture and many new challenges. As a humanitarian and a good Samaritan I have offered gainful employment to these men when many others would not. I know these humble and hard working people cannot afford to buy fancy tools and such, so I have decided to buy these tools for my men to use.

I mention these things not to elicit praise, but to simply illustrate another way to do things.

[jrannis]

I own ALL the tools my employees use. Tool belts, screwdrivers, the works. My guys are new arrivals to our marvelous country and are struggling with our language, our culture and many new challenges. As a humanitarian and a good Samaritan I have offered gainful employment to these men when many others would not. I know these humble and hard working people cannot afford to buy fancy tools and such, so I have decided to buy these tools for my men to use.

I mention these things not to elicit praise, but to simply illustrate another way to do things.

You sound like a real nice mazza to work for Senior. I'll bet you pay them privailing wages too.

[iaov]

I use all Makita corded & cordless.
Who owns them?
My wife, I bought them all for her! :grin: :grin:A number of years ago I bought my ex-wife a .243 for her birthday. She bought me a Microwave oven for mine!:D

[JohnJ0906]

I use all Makita corded & cordless.
Who owns them?
My wife, I bought them all for her! :grin: :grin:

She must have been very happy that St. Valentine's day...... :grin:

[Ed Carr]

Valentines Day isn't that coming up soon?
No wait that was ----nooooooo!

[jaylectricity]

I know I'm coming in way late on this but the guy I apprenticed for required me to have a pair of linesmans, a 6" shank flat head screwdriver, and a knife of some sort. And he mostly replaced them when mine became less functional. Occasionally I would splurge on a nicer model and sometimes when he got a good T & M job he would buy me a nicer model.

The best part was that I was allowed to take any of his special tools (roto-zip, pipe benders/offset kicks, etc) home if I needed them for anything. He was pretty good to me. Can't say the same for any of my successors...I think we were just a good fit.

[jaylectricity]

I own ALL the tools my employees use. Tool belts, screwdrivers, the works. My guys are new arrivals to our marvelous country and are struggling with our language, our culture and many new challenges. As a humanitarian and a good Samaritan I have offered gainful employment to these men when many others would not. I know these humble and hard working people cannot afford to buy fancy tools and such, so I have decided to buy these tools for my men to use.

I mention these things not to elicit praise, but to simply illustrate another way to do things.

Assuming your men have visas to be here I would say that all tools should be payed for by the entity that collects the money for the work being done.

If you're still making a profit after paying for a man's hands, the least you can do is pay for his tools. You don't even have to let him have them...just use them.

[mdshunk]

I own ALL the tools my employees use. Tool belts, screwdrivers, the works. My guys are new arrivals to our marvelous country and are struggling with our language, our culture and many new challenges. As a humanitarian and a good Samaritan I have offered gainful employment to these men when many others would not. I know these humble and hard working people cannot afford to buy fancy tools and such, so I have decided to buy these tools for my men to use.

I mention these things not to elicit praise, but to simply illustrate another way to do things.
Curious to know how you train these guys? I thought about it several times, but the training obstacles are great. Are you managing to find electrically skilled individuals in this lot?

[wireman71]

I bring hand tools and depending on the contractor a cordless drill and sawzall. That's all a employee should have to bring. Cordless is pushing it in my opinion. If not having other needed tools slows the job down I just remember I get paid by the hour.

[emahler]

I bring hand tools and depending on the contractor a cordless drill and sawzall. That's all a employee should have to bring. Cordless is pushing it in my opinion. If not having other needed tools slows the job down I just remember I get paid by the hour.

does unemployment pay by the hour?

[jaylectricity]

does unemployment pay by the hour?

I'm not trying to bash you here but as far as I can tell most of the people in the previous 7 pages of this thread thought the worker should have hand tools and maybe a drill.

Why do you think wireman71 would be unemployed?

[mdshunk]

I have developed an affinity for the cordless drill that I use every day. Without regard to whether a man was required to have one or not, I would think that he might want to use his own anyhow. Years back, I know I'd go out to my own truck on construction jobs and get my own benders because I knew they were accurate and not all messed up and I was more used to the markings on mine. There were probably a couple other things that I always wanted to use of "mine", but I can't remember right now.

[satcom]

Curious to know how you train these guys? I thought about it several times, but the training obstacles are great. Are you managing to find electrically skilled individuals in this lot?

The leg chains are training obstacles, but once he takes their leg chains off, I bet they work like crazy!

Marc, we have a company here, where they are well trainned, and taking on larger jobs, and because they are willing to work long days, they beat out other bidders. The work they do that, I have seen is pretty good.

[mdshunk]

The leg chains are training obstacles, but once he takes their leg chains off, they work like crazy!
I'm not 100% sure I like where you're going with that. It is just as valid of an option when staffing work as any other. On the face, it might seem like employing illegals, which may be what he does, but let's not assume that right off the bat, por favor.

[bikeindy]

I'm not trying to bash you here but as far as I can tell most of the people in the previous 7 pages of this thread thought the worker should have hand tools and maybe a drill.

Why do you think wireman71 would be unemployed?

My guess it is because of his attitude about being slow.

[iwire]

I can see what Marc is saying about using the tools you like but a bender does not generally wear out. With batteries at better then $80.00 each I have no desire to subsidize the company.

That said for 'one of jobs' I have brought all sorts of stuff from home, from rigging equipment, to staging, I even brought my snowblower with me to work to make the day more productive. But I don't see any need for me to provide something like a cordless drill every day.

[jaylectricity]

My guess it is because of his attitude about being slow.

It's a good guess, but he was stating that his "being slow" had more to do with the tools the company wasn't providing him with, not his basic attitude.

[480sparky]

I can see what Marc is saying about using the tools you like but a bender does not generally wear out. With batteries at better then $80.00 each I have no desire to subsidize the company.

That said for 'one of jobs' I have brought all sorts of stuff from home, from rigging equipment, to staging, I even brought my snowblower with me to work to make the day more productive. But I don't see any need for me to provide something like a cordless drill every day.

You are, however, more likely to take better care of a tool if you paid for it.

[satcom]

I'm not 100% sure I like where you're going with that. It is just as valid of an option when staffing work as any other. On the face, it might seem like employing illegals, which may be what he does, but let's not assume that right off the bat, por favor.

Anyone working by the hour is in chains, and when they go on their own buy tool to speed things up because it then benifits them.

Bottom line, hourly hand tools only.

I remember going to a job where the guys were all using hand taps, when they went on their own they used gun taps.

[jaylectricity]

You are, however, more likely to take better care of a tool if you paid for it.

Then you should still get an allowance for those tools --OR-- you get tax exemptions on your salary for business expenses. If you use your tools to make more money for the company, you should be compensated for that.

Trust me, if I get an extra $1-$2 an hour for purchasing some tools that make me work faster I have no complaints. I can use that money to buy $80 a week in tools (including replacing worn tools and dead batteries) and I'll also try to take care of them so I can pocket more of the cash instead of playing the "throw-away society" game.

[480sparky]

Then you should still get an allowance for those tools --OR-- you get tax exemptions on your salary for business expenses.

You mean you don't already deduct the cost of your tools that are required by your employer?

[iwire]

You are, however, more likely to take better care of a tool if you paid for it.

Actually I treat the company tools pretty darn well, but I certainly agree that can be a problem. I have yelled at employees mistreating tools.

Regardless IMO that problem is the business owners, either assign the tools to particular people and hold them to some level of responsibility or assign a person to check the tools in at the end of the day.

[480sparky]

Actually I treat the company tools pretty darn well, but I certainly agree that can be a problem. I have yelled at employees mistreating tools.

Regardless IMO that problem is the business owners, either assign the tools to particular people and hold them to some level of responsibility or assign a person to check the tools in at the end of the day.

I always treated company tools as if they were my own, but far to many of my coworkers didn't.

I remember seeing several brand new fish tapes sent to a job, and by the end of the week they were all laying out in the parking lot (pulling light poles that week), sitting in the snow. They soon got covered up and the GC trashed them when he used a skid loader to clear the lot.

Another option is to provide an employee with the tools, and tell them, "Here they are, but they are your responsibility. If you lose them or destroy them, you are responsible for their replacement."

[jaylectricity]

You mean you don't already deduct the cost of your tools that are required by your employer?


I don't have an employer, so no. But I guess I was agreeing with that modus operandi.

[iwire]

Another option is to provide an employee with the tools, and tell them, "Here they are, but they are your responsibility. If you lose them or destroy them, you are responsible for their replacement."

That of course is up to you and the people you hire, I would not be into that.

Where would you draw the line?

Cordless drill?

Threader?

Pulling equipment?

[satcom]

Actually I treat the company tools pretty darn well, but I certainly agree that can be a problem. I have yelled at employees mistreating tools.

Regardless IMO that problem is the business owners, either assign the tools to particular people and hold them to some level of responsibility or assign a person to check the tools in at the end of the day.

Your the exception, respecting the tool prlivages, but you do have a good point about the employeers holding them to some level of responsibility.
The enployeer that tools up the workers, benifits in increased production, as the one comment said, I work hourly.

[480sparky]

That of course is up to you and the people you hire, I would not be into that.

Where would you draw the line?

Cordless drill?

Threader?

Pulling equipment?

You provide a list of tools that you have assigned to an employee, and they agree they are responsible for those tools. I know of several outfits that use this system. Employer buys the tools, but if the employee is careless and loses them, he needs to pony since he's responsible.

Large tools, like a threader or puller, is assigned to a job. You can't expect a cubby to be responsible for a 4-digit tool.

[emahler]

I'm not trying to bash you here but as far as I can tell most of the people in the previous 7 pages of this thread thought the worker should have hand tools and maybe a drill.

Why do you think wireman71 would be unemployed?

it's not the part about who provides tools...it's this part
If not having other needed tools slows the job down I just remember I get paid by the hour.

reason being, it's a two way street...if the tool is broken because someone on site didn't treat it right, or it's on another job until tomorrow, or it's just not there for any reason...find something else productive to do on that job...

the attitude of "i don't care, i get paid by the hour" sucks...

as an employer we provide everything but hand tools and cordless...we will replace worn out batteries, but i won't provide cordless tools anymore...matter of fact, if we had all the money spent on replacing tools that were broken, lost, misplaced, stolen, etc over the years, I would be retired in the caribbean.

so, when the company wireman works for goes out of business because too many guys have the "i don't care, i work by the hour" attitude and jobs start running way over budget...i wonder if his unemployment will be hourly or weekly?

[iwire]

matter of fact, if we had all the money spent on replacing tools that were broken, lost, misplaced, stolen, etc over the years, I would be retired in the caribbean.

And if you got all your material for free life would be better as well.

Stop paying your taxes, that will be better as well, at least for a while. :D

[emahler]

And if you got all your material for free life would be better as well.

Stop paying your taxes, that will be better as well, at least for a while. :D
bob, reread my post...replaced is the key word...don't obfuscate the point

[jaylectricity]

it's not the part about who provides tools...it's this part


reason being, it's a two way street...if the tool is broken because someone on site didn't treat it right, or it's on another job until tomorrow, or it's just not there for any reason...find something else productive to do on that job...

the attitude of "i don't care, i get paid by the hour" sucks...

as an employer we provide everything but hand tools and cordless...we will replace worn out batteries, but i won't provide cordless tools anymore...matter of fact, if we had all the money spent on replacing tools that were broken, lost, misplaced, stolen, etc over the years, I would be retired in the caribbean.

so, when the company wireman works for goes out of business because too many guys have the "i don't care, i work by the hour" attitude and jobs start running way over budget...i wonder if his unemployment will be hourly or weekly?

I completely agree with your statement, however I don't believe that was the intent of the original statement. He never said, "I don't care, I work by the hour," he said:

If not having other needed tools slows the job down I just remember I get paid by the hour.

I take that to mean that if the employer isn't providing the tools to get the job done quickly, wireman71 is willing to put his nose to the grindstone and complete the work with the tools available. He doesn't mention anything about his unwillingness to take care of tools, keep them clean or put them away. He only mentions the lack of the employer providing the tools in the first place.

And if you got all your material for free life would be better as well.

Stop paying your taxes, that will be better as well, at least for a while. :D

I am intrigued by your ideas...might you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

[emahler]

jayelectricity...check back with me after you get some employees under your belt:D

[iwire]

don't obfuscate the point

I learned from you Dad! :grin:

[emahler]

I learned from you Dad! :grin:

well then...keep practicing

[jaylectricity]

jayelectricity...check back with me after you get some employees under your belt:D

heh heh... I hope that day never comes. I've heard enough stories from Davis9 to know that you speak the truth.

[bikeindy]

I can see what Marc is saying about using the tools you like but a bender does not generally wear out. With batteries at better then $80.00 each I have no desire to subsidize the company.

That said for 'one of jobs' I have brought all sorts of stuff from home, from rigging equipment, to staging, I even brought my snowblower with me to work to make the day more productive. But I don't see any need for me to provide something like a cordless drill every day.

As the owner and a former employee I see both sides of this. I once had a guy working for me who brought every tool under the sun with him and he did it because he liked his tools. they made him more productive but also made his job easier. That was the attitude I had when I was working for some one. If I am more productive than other guys I get paid more, If I use tools I like I enjoy the job more.

As an owner I provide tools for guys to use that I like and find to be more productive for me. I have to buy batteries not from being worn out but because the get forgotten on jobs. I don't like that, and I told the guys if you like using cordless stuff you will have to keep the batteries around or I might buy some hand drills for them to use for a day.

[brian john]

I'll buy any tool they want or need BUT, that tool had better be taken care of, if broken repaired or replaced. My employees know my feeling on tools with any problems repair replace no questions no hassles FIX IT OR BUY NEW. This weekend I borrowed a drill from one of my lead techs....Switch is intermittent, drove me batty. Apprentice tells me it has been that way a year.


Blood pressure rising....................I seldom get upset with them but this really drives me over the top...Or and dead batteries, I installed 1,200 watt inverters on all trucks.

3 mechanic standing waiting for 3 sawzall batteries to charge to cut one 2" EMT. Hoping I would not arrive before the EMT was cut..No one had a hack saw..(EXCEPT ME).

[JohnJ0906]

As the owner and a former employee I see both sides of this. I once had a guy working for me who brought every tool under the sun with him and he did it because he liked his tools. they made him more productive but also made his job easier. That was the attitude I had when I was working for some one. If I am more productive than other guys I get paid more, If I use tools I like I enjoy the job more.

That is how I feel. I certainly bring more than I am required to, but I am making my job easier (good for John) and being more productive (good for company). I am also the top paid guy at my company - part of the reason is that, unlike a lot of other, I don't call the shop saying "I can't finish this job because I don't have xxxx"
Just a personal choice. I'd rather use a cordless sawzall (optional) than a hacksaw (required).

[bikeindy]

That is how I feel. I certainly bring more than I am required to, but I am making my job easier (good for John) and being more productive (good for company). I am also the top paid guy at my company - part of the reason is that, unlike a lot of other, I don't call the shop saying "I can't finish this job because I don't have xxxx"
Just a personal choice. I'd rather use a cordless sawzall (optional) than a hacksaw (required).


My former employer whom I am still good friends and he helps me with some things from time to time. Allowed his guys to buy any tool they wanted on his accounts for personal use and he deducted a certain amount each week from our pay to pay them back. It was a great way to get the tools you wanted and not just for work reasons I bought all kinds of tools. Most of which made me more productive and increased my wage $5.25 per hour in a year.

[RHJohnson]

There isn't a good solution to who should furnish tools. It's not politically correct, but a lot of electricians? / construction hands are really from the bottom of the barrell. I have had so many of my tools, both hand and power, stolen from my shop and from job sites that at times I thought I'd go so crazy I'd really hurt someone. Some of these were real speciality tools - hard to get or even find. Even some electricians didn't know what some of them were for. I've had meters hooked up to live circuits, running tests where I or someone would return at intervals to record what is occurring, and made a check 10 minutes after the electricians shift ended and find those test instruments missing "stolen" - remember they were on live circuits, usually in rooms only accessible to electricians.
Earlier in my career when I had as many as 50 employees I made it a point to only have what I considered "the cream of the crop". If I new guy could not, or would not live up to expectations he was history. And if I got a call from his new prospective employer I would not hold back. This was the norm in the area where I was - If a new guy applied to me I would phone his references, and if they were local I knew I'd hear the unvarnished truth.
I never felt an employee should need to furnish more than the basic hand tools. But he should be responsible for all tools I furnished. If they were broken or stolen, or lost I wanted to know why and how. If they couldn't take care of tools entrusted to them, I could not require them to replace those tools, but those electricians? did not need to be my problem anymore.
A good attitude, quality work, presentable to clients, and no whining - which is a real morale problem. But some people always feel life is unfair - and there is nothing you can do which will change their mind.

[brian john]

and no whining

I'll put up with a lot, but the whining DRIVES me bonkers, you are an adult you find a parking space, a supply house with 6/32" screws, get along with the apprentice I am sorry is is a republican or democrat or vegetarian or big game hunter. I know it is 2:30 and you have a 30 mile drive home, but a hospital just lost ALL POWER and the generator won't start and I am 1-1/2 hours away.

OK so take care of your tools, charge the batteries and quit crying.

[petersonra]

When I started in the trade you owned the tools you carried on your tool belt. Now it seems that EC's want you to own your own power tools. One EC in the neighborhood wants his guys to own their own 4" ko punch.

What's the norm?

thanks
I think it is widely variable from contractor to contractor, especially with non-union shops. Union shops tend to have this laid out in the contract in some way, and it tends to be pretty minimalist.

OTOH, some guys like to buy tools.

IMO, I think every electrician should own the basic handtools, and a good meter (with current reading). If it doesn't fit in their tool pouch, the employer probably should supply it.

[petersonra]

The point is, the contractor cannot require you to have a no-dog. If he insists you use one, he must supply it. If he supplys it, there's no problem with you keeping it in your tool bag if that's their policy.
what is a no-dog?

[emahler]

what is a no-dog?

a level to keep a guy from generating a bone yard of misbent conduit...so, you can't require him to actually be competent...and if you require him to have a $25 tool to help him do the job he's supposed to be competent at...you have to supply it...might as well bend the conduit for him and send him home:D

[480sparky]

what is a no-dog?

No-Dog (http://www.no-dog.com/nodog/) level.

[Ed Carr]

480 first time I've seen this thing.
Thanks for the link-Ed

[Tiger Electrical]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it. If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour. I don't have employees, but after hearing enough stories about disappearing tools I'd recommend that the employee either supply the cordless tools, or if supplied by the employer...sign for them and be financially responsible for them.

Dave

[mdshunk]

If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour.
That sounds cool, until you're bending on gravel, earth, or some other uneven wacky floor. Can a guy bend without an aid like a no-dog? Certainly, but sometimes it's easier to use one. I have one, but I still reach for a regular inclinometer many times if the floor is uneven, since I can zero it to the unlevel conditions.

[Minuteman]

No-dogs are a MUST for a Chicago or any type power bender.

[RHJohnson]

We bent lot's of pipe with a triple nickle, before that gimmick (No-dog). It's like anything else, the more you do a job the better you get, and if you try real hard to do good work it does come easy after a while. I saw many different electricians doing good pipe work by eye-ball. But some guy's never could get it, and I don't think a No-dog would have helped them.

[brian john]

If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour.

Then there are guys that maybe install 100' (if that) a year. Some electricians have other fish to fry.

[Rewire]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it. If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour. I don't have employees, but after hearing enough stories about disappearing tools I'd recommend that the employee either supply the cordless tools, or if supplied by the employer...sign for them and be financially responsible for them.

Dave
Maybe for 1/2 or 3/4 but you get into the larger emt a nodog is a must have tool six runs of 4 in with every bend an exact match is a beautiful thing.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

...

There were probably a couple other things that I always wanted to use of "mine", but I can't remember right now.

Let me guess... a megger? :grin:

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it. If you can't bend conduit by eye without a level get some glasses and practice another half hour. I don't have employees, but after hearing enough stories about disappearing tools I'd recommend that the employee either supply the cordless tools, or if supplied by the employer...sign for them and be financially responsible for them.

Dave

If you aren't capable of running a simple contracting business without breaking labor laws, you oughta face the truth and pack it in.

An employee could crash your truck, tip over a $12,000 photocopier, bust a water main in a library and blow up a brand new service, you can't do a thing about it AND you still have to pay the man.

[bikeindy]

If you aren't capable of running a simple contracting business without breaking labor laws, you oughta face the truth and pack it in.

An employee could crash your truck, tip over a $12,000 photocopier, bust a water main in a library and blow up a brand new service, you can't do a thing about it AND you still have to pay the man.


Where are you from? I can fire a guy for looking left only once before turning if I want to in Indiana. I don't need a reason to fire a guy. I could do it for fun. Thats not how I operate but I think you get my drift. I am not breaking a labor law by making an employee responsible for tools under his control, If he is working for me and I think he was negligent in his job and he caused property damage he is gone baby gone.

[emahler]

Where are you from? I can fire a guy for looking left only once before turning if I want to in Indiana. I don't need a reason to fire a guy. I could do it for fun. Thats not how I operate but I think you get my drift. I am not breaking a labor law by making an employee responsible for tools under his control, If he is working for me and I think he was negligent in his job and he caused property damage he is gone baby gone.

no you can't....you owe your employees a living....it's your responsibility to make sure they are taken care of...and to make sure you provide them everything they need to live.....and if you don't it means you are an incompetent business man...in fact, you should have bidets, instead of porta johns on site..it's your responsibility as an employer to make sure the employees who are unqualified to wipe themselves don't get chafed...i mean c'mon...

[George Stolz]

I bought a no-dog for fun but I never use it.
I bought the Greenlee short one and the screw busted off after the third time I dropped it, give or take. The Greenlee one has magnets, that's what I use.

But mine isn't engraved, either. I almost can't resist a gimmick like that... :D

http://www.no-dog.com/nodog/example/ronaubrey-red-continuum.gif

[480sparky]

Here (http://www.mygreenlee.com/Products/main.shtml?greenlee_category_id=8&product_category=119&adodb_next_page=1&portalProcess_2=showGreenleeProductTemplate&upc_number=03582) is a link to the Greenlee level. It has their version of a No-Dog on it.

[ItsHot]

Will these work on smurf?

[George Stolz]

Here (http://www.mygreenlee.com/Products/main.shtml?greenlee_category_id=8&product_category=119&adodb_next_page=1&portalProcess_2=showGreenleeProductTemplate&upc_number=03582) is a link to the Greenlee level. It has their version of a No-Dog on it.
http://www.mygreenlee.com/products/upc/images/03582.JPG

Ooo - that one has a laser on it, I do have to get me one of those. :)

Sounds like I need to drop my level a couple more times, maybe off the fifth floor... ;)

[480sparky]

http://www.mygreenlee.com/products/upc/images/03582.JPG

Ooo - that one has a laser on it, I do have to get me one of those. :)



That way, it will look like you're in a disco as it falls to a premature death! :D :D

[cschmid]

http://www.mygreenlee.com/products/upc/images/03582.JPG

Ooo - that one has a laser on it, I do have to get me one of those. :)

Sounds like I need to drop my level a couple more times, maybe off the fifth floor... ;)

I own it like it but I still bend free hand sometimes even with out using tape measure..:)

[mdshunk]

Any of you guys have the Robert Badger limited edition no-dog set? I hear it's a collector's item. :grin:

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/mdshunk/engravednodog.jpg

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Where are you from? I can fire a guy for looking left only once before turning if I want to in Indiana. I don't need a reason to fire a guy. I could do it for fun. Thats not how I operate but I think you get my drift.

Correct, but until you DO fire him, you cannot not pay him.


I am not breaking a labor law by making an employee responsible for tools under his control, If he is working for me and I think he was negligent in his job and he caused property damage he is gone baby gone.

Of course. But you still owe the wages.

[iwire]

Any of you guys have the Robert Badger limited edition no-dog set? I hear it's a collector's item. :grin:

It was a buck a tool to have my name put on, it's not like I would have 'iwire' on them. :grin:

[electricalperson]

Any of you guys have the Robert Badger limited edition no-dog set? I hear it's a collector's item. :grin:

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/mdshunk/engravednodog.jpg
im going to get that 6 inch no dog level and engrave it with "please dont steal me":D

[tonyou812]

I bought the Greenlee short one and the screw busted off after the third time I dropped it, give or take. The Greenlee one has magnets, that's what I use.

But mine isn't engraved, either. I almost can't resist a gimmick like that... :D

http://www.no-dog.com/nodog/example/ronaubrey-red-continuum.gif
mine broke off too.......hmmm

[JohnME]

Company buys all my tools, even the hand tools, they really take good care of us. If your in the middle of something and you need a hand tool, what are you supposed to do? Drop everything and go run after it? I just make a call to a supply house with the company account and it shows up pretty darn quick. I think it actually saves the company money in the long run, guys always have what they need because they dont put off buying tools they seldom use, they have it all and no time is wasted.

[jdsmith]

mine broke off too.......hmmm


Are the screws that are breaking off brass like the picture shows? Steel thumbscrews are available that would probably last longer. They have stainless ones too if you need it to be shiny:).

[lonetreeelectric]

A few short years ago the fellow I was working for along with my wife provided very few tools, my wife and I added more and more tools that were owned by us. It came to a point I had more and better tools than the owner inc circuit tracers etc. When the owner demanded that we buy all our newly required safety equipment too, that was the end. We explained that we would but he could start from that point of providing all the power tools that we had because we were pulling them off his truck. (a non-union Co). He laid us off on the door step of our own house. Turned out just fine as most of his good customers followed us to our new self-owned company. Now I know who owns the tools. We provide all tools past basic hand tools for our help. Perhaps there is a moral to the story?

[ultramegabob]

I only require my help to supply thier screwdrivers, dykes, linemans, strippers, torpedo level, tape measure, and pouch or box to carry them in, they can bring thier own cordless drill if they like, but its not required, and I really dont want them to bring anything else, I dont want to have the issue of replacing someones worn out or home project grade tools because they got broken on my job....

[Rewire]

A few short years ago the fellow I was working for along with my wife provided very few tools, my wife and I added more and more tools that were owned by us. It came to a point I had more and better tools than the owner inc circuit tracers etc. When the owner demanded that we buy all our newly required safety equipment too, that was the end. We explained that we would but he could start from that point of providing all the power tools that we had because we were pulling them off his truck. (a non-union Co). He laid us off on the door step of our own house. Turned out just fine as most of his good customers followed us to our new self-owned company. Now I know who owns the tools. We provide all tools past basic hand tools for our help. Perhaps there is a moral to the story?
moral or lack of:when you go into business make sure and take your former bosses customers

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

moral or lack of:when you go into business make sure and take your former bosses customers

Customers are not property.

[Rewire]

Customers are not property.
My advertising that I paid for attracted them to me, my telephone that I paid for is what they contacted me on,My truck that I paid for along with the gas,insurance ,and maintinance that I paid for is what brought my worker to them.My insurance ,license,payrole,taxes that I paid for allows my employee even to be in the position to meet the customer and you dont think I have reason to think it underhanded backstabbing for an employee to go after this customer if they jump ship?The first wife is not property but you hit on her and out go your lights.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

My advertising that I paid for attracted them to me, my telephone that I paid for is what they contacted me on,My truck that I paid for along with the gas,insurance ,and maintinance that I paid for is what brought my worker to them.My insurance ,license,payrole,taxes that I paid for allows my employee even to be in the position to meet the customer and you dont think I have reason to think it underhanded backstabbing for an employee to go after this customer if they jump ship? The first wife is not property but you hit on her and out go your lights.

I understand you points, but none of them are applicable to the decisions your ex-customer makes. They're free to decide who they employ. Just because they once were your customer, does not give you the right to claim some kind of "dibs" on them, that no other electrican or company formed by an ex-employee is permitted to woo a new client.

If you don't want employees or ex-employees to become potential competitors, don't ever hire any. Not that that means you'll never lose a customer, only the ability to blame the loss on someone other than yourself.

In addition, everything you spend on advertizing, telephones, etc does not give you exclusive rights to anything, and none of it "created" the customer.

[Rewire]

I understand you points, but none of them are applicable to the decisions your ex-customer makes. They're free to decide who they employ. I never said they could notJust because they once were your customer, does not give you the right to claim some kind of "dibs" on them, why not that no other electrican or company formed by an ex-employee is permitted to woo a new client.
I have no problem with other Ecs going after business I do have a problem with backstabbing ex employees targeting customers that they would probably not even know existed other than through employment with me


In addition, everything you spend on advertizing, telephones, etc does not give you exclusive rights to anything, and none of it "created" the customer.yes but it did create the relationship with the customer

[brian john]

[quote]If your in the middle of something and you need a hand tool,[/qoute]

Hate to bust your chops, BUT if you are in the middle of something and do not have the HANDTOOL, you are not laying your jobs out adequately. Besides which there are few hand tools another hand tool can not take the place of in the short term.

[mattsilkwood]

all we are required to have are basic handtools. but ive got everything from cordless to benders to kos ect,ect. but im a toolaphile(i dont know if thats a real word but it sounds good:grin: ) i enjoy working with my tools, i didnt spend all that money for them to sit on a shelf and look pretty. it helps me be more productive because i know where all my tools are so i dont have to waste time looking around the shopfor stuff. and if i need something for a side job i dont have to borrow it, thats not a problem but its a pride thing kinda wierd huh. the company pays to fix anything thats broken, batteries or whatever. but i like having my own stuff.

[Ed Carr]

This is a little off topic but here goes.
We were on a job today and I saw a guy from another
company using what at first glance appeared to be
a kids toy. Turns out it is a mini battery powered
bandsaw made by a company called Stout.
Does anyone have one of these?
The thing was awesome. Light and powerful.
The real kicker is made in the USA! :grin:

[mattsilkwood]

This is a little off topic but here goes.
We were on a job today and I saw a guy from another
company using what at first glance appeared to be
a kids toy. Turns out it is a mini battery powered
bandsaw made by a company called Stout.
Does anyone have one of these?
The thing was awesome. Light and powerful.
The real kicker is made in the USA! :grin:
just googled it. looks like itd be great for strut but the thing i dont like is it only cuts to 2 1/2. might have to try one.

[msurban]

My guys are to provide their own hand tools which i inspect. We try to have all the guys buy e-rated tools, nothing from the discount houses. I provide all the other tools thru a lease program with a supplier, corder and cordless. They sign a sheet with all the tools and serial numbers stating what is on each truck. Lose it and you buy it!

[DanZ]

I suddenly see how some ECs can charge $65 an hour or less. They don't supply the tools their guys need!

Most of the other unlicensed "electricians" don't have the tools they need to do more than a new install, either.

It seems like the old home owner thought process, "I've got a screw driver, how hard can it be to install a 3-way light switch..."

If this has already been mentioned, sorry. I can't take the time to go through 14 pages of posts, at work.

-Dan

[brian john]

Most of the other unlicensed "electricians" don't have the tools they need to do more than a new install, either.

I do not think this had diddly to do with it. Generalized statements like this can be thrown in the trash if I can show you just one unlicensed electrician with a truck full of tools.

[K2500]

I suddenly see how some ECs can charge $65 an hour or less.
-Dan

Maybe because the local market supports that price.



Most of the other unlicensed "electricians" don't have the tools they need to do more than a new install, either.

-Dan

How often does your firm deal with unlicensed electrcians?

How often does an electrician who works with a design/build company, need more than the tools required for a new installation?

[wireman]

I am an IBEW Journeyman Electrician and although our contracts says we just supply our own hand tools (Kleins, dykes, screwdrivers, channellocks) most of the more professional electricians will often supply a few specialty tools of there own just to make life easier.

But the contractor always supplies things like ladders, electric or battery powered tools, benders, drill bits, etc. Most guys carry a Wiggy but the contractor supplies all other types of meters.

[crwill]

I have been an Electrician for 43 years. An Electrical Contractor for 30 of those years. As an Electrician I furnished my handtools. As an Electrical Contracor I expected my men to have handtools that would be replaced by me if they were worn out. Basic handtools are a part of being an electrician.
Pride of ownership is something being lost in todays society.
A tool is a device that makes work easier. I like easier.
I have never had an Electrician complain or think it unusual to have his own handtools.

[brian john]

I have been an Electrician for 43 years. An Electrical Contractor for 30 of those years. As an Electrician I furnished my handtools. As an Electrical Contracor I expected my men to have handtools that would be replaced by me if they were worn out. Basic handtools are a part of being an electrician.


Agree 100%

Pride of ownership is something being lost in todays society.
I knew electricians in the 70's, 80's and 90's that were just as bad as some of the hacks we see today and some as good or better than some of the excellent electricians working in the field as we chat.

A tool is a device that makes work easier. I like easier.
I have never had an Electrician complain or think it unusual to have his own handtools.


Agree 100%