Am I to high(pool wiring)

[ryandumas]

I was asked to give a bid to wire a outdoor panel box for some pool pumps and motors the pool guys will hook it up they just need the panel installed. I need a 60' long trench from which I am coming up with a 90 into the house crawlspace for 30' to the main panel box crawlspace is open. Now the box I am installing outside for the pool pump is also going to supply a sub panel for a future pool house plus i also need to run a new circuit 30' for an outdoor plug. I plan on using 1/0 3conductor with a ground for the service with 2" conduit buried soft soil straight shot only 2 90s the pool company is calling for 60 amps the pool house will have a stove, water heater, 220 in wall ac unit slash heater plus various plugs but this will come off a future indoor circuit breaker box. also have to re locate an underground circuit for a gate 20' to the corner of the house. I bid it at 3,700.00 and the owner said I was nuts and did not know what I was doing he said the parts should only cost 2,500.00 max with that said thats 1,200.00 left to pay insurance permits ........... Am I crazy or is he give me your honest opinion don't hold back

[iwire]

I bid it at 3,700.00 and the owner said I was nuts and did not know what I was doing he said the parts should only cost 2,500.00 max

How would the owner have any idea what the job he wants done should cost?

He just figured in his mind it should not cost much and that you would do it for the pleasure of it.

[iwire]

I plan on using 1/0 3 conductor with a ground for the service with 2" conduit buried soft soil straight shot only 2 90s

What is "1/0 3 conductor with a ground"?

[frizbeedog]

How would the owner have any idea what the job he wants done should cost?

He just figured in his mind it should not cost much and that you would do it for the pleasure of it.

And the parts will install themselves. How convienient. :wink:

[frizbeedog]

......owner said I was nuts and did not know what I was doing....

If he thinks you're nuts and don't know what you are doing.....? Wait a sec, he still want's to hire you? Bet he won't pay.

[emahler]

if he thinks your nuts at $3700....he'd think i'm certifiably insane wen he saw my price....min $5500...and that's if all goes well...

[satcom]

if he thinks your nuts at $3700....he'd think i'm certifiably insane wen he saw my price....min $5500...and that's if all goes well...

Just reading the job detailes, $5500 may not be eniough to break even, if as you say everything went well, and just what are the pool bozos, going to do, and do they intend to do it on your permit, so you can take all the liability for their share of the who knows what kind of work.

[ItsHot]

It is for a pool? Tell him, you wanta play, you gotta pay!! If he gives you to much trouble ,tell him to buy a "kiddy" pool! One that does not require power!

[electricalperson]

sounds like the person is trying to find a deal. tell him that by giving people free electrical work or deals your not only hurting yourself (the op) but your hurting the industry. never underbid yourself. you worked too hard for your license to give out discounted electrical work. i hear this all the time. this is what i say: "this is what i charge for my work. if you can find someone to do it cheaper than i can go for it. remember you get what you paid for."
i didnt get a job because the person thought i was too expensive. i charged 700 dollars to change a 100 amp fuse panel and wire a compressor. he was telling me he knows what the material costs and thought i would install it for free. how are we supposed to make money if we dont charge for labor and install material at cost?

[c2500]

Make money???? Why would we want to go and do a stupid thing like that???? Oh yeah, we are in business...like to eat....have a place to live...ahh the details customers seem to overlook.

c2500

[ryandumas]

Iwire to answer your question maybe I wrote it wrong. 1/0-3 conductor ser.
3 conductors of 1/0 with a ground.

[wireman71]

Eh.. Just be honest and businesslike with him. He might call you back in a week and hire you.

[electricalperson]

we dont need to make money!

[iwire]

Forget the SER in the underground raceway, order separate conductors XHHW, THWN RHW etc.

[ryandumas]

Your right Iwire I don't know what I was thinking but yes that is what I planned on doing was running seperate conductors.

[ryandumas]

Iwire Your right what was I thinking. That is what I planned on doing.

Customer just called me and asked me if I could still do the job he told me he had three other bids and they were all higher than mine(makes me think if I need to change my prices). Now he would like me to start monday I replied that it would cost more because of the overtime I would have to pay my workers to finish up other jobs ahead of schedule plus I would have to adjust for material price. so it added up to 4,900.00 plus I made sure that the pool installers would not ride on my permit. what do you think should I stay away or do it and make some money

[bikeindy]

Don't walk away,Run, just call him and tell him you are too busy and can't get to it. Sorry.

[220/221]

I bid it at 3,700.00 and the owner said I was nuts and did not know what I was doing


And you are still considering doing the work?

You are nuts and you don't know what you're doing :grin:

This guy will be a pain in the arse. If you really need the work, write a stong contract and get a big deposit.

[romexking]

Iwire Your right what was I thinking. That is what I planned on doing.

Customer just called me and asked me if I could still do the job he told me he had three other bids and they were all higher than mine(makes me think if I need to change my prices). Now he would like me to start monday I replied that it would cost more because of the overtime I would have to pay my workers to finish up other jobs ahead of schedule plus I would have to adjust for material price. so it added up to 4,900.00 plus I made sure that the pool installers would not ride on my permit. what do you think should I stay away or do it and make some money

When did you give him your first "bid". I certainly don't mind you making money, but why would you have to adjust for material cost increase? If it has only been a couple of days since the first number you gave him, as a consumer, I would be upset that you seem to be changing your first number. The additional money for the overtime is a different story, I find that reasonable if wants to start immediately, but how much overtime can really be involved in completing the other work. After all it is Sat. and you expect that any other work can be completed tomorrow for you to be available on Monday. I'm sure the HO could wait one or two days to start. I'm not trying to keep you from making money, but you did give the person a price, and now that price is increasing by 30%. From my perspective, it makes us as contractors look shady when we increase our prices after an interest in using us is expressed.

[bradleyelectric]

If he thinks you're nuts and don't know what you are doing.....? Wait a sec, he still want's to hire you? Bet he won't pay.


That always baffles me. Clowns want to get me on the phone after the job is done and beat me up on price, than don't pay anyway. Why don't they just get on the phone and say "Hey pal, I just stuck it in you" and save all the nonsence.

[ryandumas]

When did you give him your first "bid". I certainly don't mind you making money, but why would you have to adjust for material cost increase? If it has only been a couple of days since the first number you gave him, as a consumer, I would be upset that you seem to be changing your first number. The additional money for the overtime is a different story, I find that reasonable if wants to start immediately, but how much overtime can really be involved in completing the other work. After all it is Sat. and you expect that any other work can be completed tomorrow for you to be available on Monday. I'm sure the HO could wait one or two days to start. I'm not trying to keep you from making money, but you did give the person a price, and now that price is increasing by 30%. From my perspective, it makes us as contractors look shady when we increase our prices after an interest in using us is expressed.

The original bid was over a month ago. plus he is only giving me one day because he is laying a cement deck tuesday. that 30% is not all material it is the cost of paying my 3 guys overtime. Just a misunderstanding maybe

[satcom]

The original bid was over a month ago. plus he is only giving me one day because he is laying a cement deck tuesday. that 30% is not all material it is the cost of paying my 3 guys overtime. Just a misunderstanding maybe

Did you explain to him that you need to secure a permit, before work starts, he can't just call and say, the cement is going so I need you now, he should of accepted the contract well in advance of starting work, you have a good one there, once you start jumping hoops he may ask you to walk thru fire next.

[romexking]

The original bid was over a month ago. plus he is only giving me one day because he is laying a cement deck tuesday. that 30% is not all material it is the cost of paying my 3 guys overtime. Just a misunderstanding maybe

No it wasn't a misunderstanding. Your justification for a price increase is reasonable given the details. And to repeat Satcom, what about an inspection? You must inform him that you need to get a permit and inspection...if he still chooses to pour concrete, well let him handle the consequences. I don't recall reading anything about the bonding of the pool. What's the story with that?

[quogueelectric]

I would start digging the trench. Who is doing the groumding?? Just take pictures of the work YOU do. And put a little bird inthe inspectors ear that you are only hired to do specifically the work you are doing. Ask him not to break chops until you get paid for your work and hope it is not the pool guys brother.

[circuitshort]

no you were not too high, I don't know where you located but one of the problems is that you have too many people looking who have very little knowledge doing electrical work, and thats who homeowners and builders are looking for, and then the code is based upon a mimium requirement, so as long as you have states like VA, and other southern states who you can just about get away with anything, yo will always have this problem, but as for charging too much only you know what you are worth.

[ryandumas]

The pool guys are in charge of all the bonding. It was all stated in my contract that all grounding is the resposibility of the pool installers and in no way is it to fall back on me in case of a failed inspection. Also I told him about the problem with a permit and inspection and he said he would like to just have me install the system and he will worry about the inspector. Little side note I have heard of a few inspectors here making people tear out there driveway to check for proper depth. But he said he will deal with it and it is stated that way in my contract. I also stated in my contract due to time constraints that I would like 75% down and the rest upon completion not upon a passed inspection will see tommorow what happens.

[satcom]

The pool guys are in charge of all the bonding. It was all stated in my contract that all grounding is the resposibility of the pool installers and in no way is it to fall back on me in case of a failed inspection. Also I told him about the problem with a permit and inspection and he said he would like to just have me install the system and he will worry about the inspector. Little side note I have heard of a few inspectors here making people tear out there driveway to check for proper depth. But he said he will deal with it and it is stated that way in my contract. I also stated in my contract due to time constraints that I would like 75% down and the rest upon completion not upon a passed inspection will see tommorow what happens.

My head is spinning, ""The pool guys are in charge of all the bonding.""

You do the bonding, and grounding, why are you letting the pool guys do your work?

""Also I told him about the problem with a permit and inspection and he said he would like to just have me install the system and he will worry about the inspector.""

He is trying to change the laws, as i said, you have a winner there as a customer, this guy is a problem waiting to happen, I would have told him to find someone else, you must need the work pretty bad, to let a customer control you.

With a guy like this, the slighest thing goes wrong, no matter what your contract says, and he will withhold payment, and point everything on you.

[tonyou812]

[QUOTE=iwire]How would the owner have any idea what the job he wants done should cost?

I would just tell him to get someone else. why should you let him tell you what you are going to make on the job? your price sounds reasonalble if not a little low.

[Cavie]

Iwire to answer your question maybe I wrote it wrong. 1/0-3 conductor ser.
3 conductors of 1/0 with a ground.

If you get the job, reduce the neutral size and save yourself some money.

[emahler]

the $200 he'll save by reducing the neutral is not nearly enough to cover the headaches....the requote on this should have wel over $10k given the time factor, the owners attitude and the potential fines...heck mae it $12,500....no wonder this industry is in a downward spiral....

[bradleyelectric]

the $200 he'll save by reducing the neutral is not nearly enough to cover the headaches....the requote on this should have wel over $10k given the time factor, the owners attitude and the potential fines...heck mae it $12,500....no wonder this industry is in a downward spiral....

your just one of those guys that think they should make money on EVERY job.

[AV ELECTRIC]

Ide Let Him Or The Pool Guys Pull The Permit If Thats Allowed. Have Him Or The Pool Guys Do The Trench And Lay The Conduit Under Your Direction On Location And How You Want It Done You Can Inspect It After They Complete. Of Course The Inspector Needs To Look At It But Its Not Your Permit Or Your Install. I Worked For A Pool Guy And He Pulled The Permits And Did The Underground And Pulled The Wire Back To The Panel. (the Grunt Work) And Built And Installed The Supports For The Pool Panel He Also Provided The Pool Panel And Installed It On His Supports. He Did A Great Job He Was A Rod Iron Gate Installer Before He Became A Pool Guy . I Came In Tide Into The Panel And Hooked Up All The Pool Equipment. It Took Me Between 4 To Six Hours. I Would Charge About 800 Dollars . Parts Come Out To 150 Dollars At The Most. Every One Was Happy. By Letting The Ho Do Some Of The Grunt Work He Thinks He Saving Money And Your Making More Money For Less Work.

[satcom]

your just one of those guys that think they should make money on EVERY job.

He is not a social responsible person, just thinking about himself, simple greed, I can see why he can't be happy working like everyone else, what an extra six pack on fridays. is not good eniough for you?

[bradleyelectric]

Ide Let Him Or The Pool Guys Pull The Permit If Thats Allowed. Have Him Or The Pool Guys Do The Trench And Lay The Conduit Under Your Direction On Location And How You Want It Done You Can Inspect It After They Complete. Of Course The Inspector Needs To Look At It But Its Not Your Permit Or Your Install. I Worked For A Pool Guy And He Pulled The Permits And Did The Underground And Pulled The Wire Back To The Panel. (the Grunt Work) And Built And Installed The Supports For The Pool Panel He Also Provided The Pool Panel And Installed It On His Supports. He Did A Great Job He Was A Rod Iron Gate Installer Before He Became A Pool Guy . I Came In Tide Into The Panel And Hooked Up All The Pool Equipment. It Took Me Between 4 To Six Hours. I Would Charge About 800 Dollars . Parts Come Out To 150 Dollars At The Most. Every One Was Happy. By Letting The Ho Do Some Of The Grunt Work He Thinks He Saving Money And Your Making More Money For Less Work.


Why would you give your work away? Why wouldn't you charge enough to make that work that you are giving to the homeowner and pool guy worth doing? What are the requirements for pulling permits where you work?

[bradleyelectric]

He is not a social responsible person, just thinking about himself, simple greed, I can see why he can't be happy working like everyone else, what an extra six pack on fridays. is not good eniough for you?

It's contractors like him that give all us living week to week a bad name.

[220/221]

Know Won Is Gonna Say Anything???

[stickboy1375]

Know Won Is Gonna Say Anything???
Nope I Just Skipped Over The Post Because It Was Too Hard To Read...

[emahler]

i lucked out....i've been laying out a projrct we are starting tomorrow...it's in a hospital...when i tried to read that post i had a siezure...but they jus took me to the er and saved me...i coulda died from it....thank god doctors take a hippocratic oath, even though we don't....

[AV ELECTRIC]

Ive Given Bids To Many People And They Said Thats Way To Expensive And They Will Get Someone Else. Were Saying That If They Want To Do A Portion Of The Work Like Digging The Trench Why Not. Dont Have To Worry About Underground Services Or Big Rocks. I Understand If You Are Slow You Might Not Suggest This Approach But If Your Busy And Dont Have Time To Do As Perscribed By The Original Gentlemen Where The Ho Wanted It Done The Next Day And He Would Have To Charge For Overtime Implications. Maybe He Can Limit His Scope Of Work Do It For The Price He Suggested And Make More Money Than He Would Have Made Doing The Complete Job.

[emahler]

dammit....back to the hospital....

[stickboy1375]

Ive Given Bids To Many People And They Said Thats Way To Expensive And They Will Get Someone Else. Were Saying That If They Want To Do A Portion Of The Work Like Digging The Trench Why Not. Dont Have To Worry About Underground Services Or Big Rocks. I Understand If You Are Slow You Might Not Suggest This Approach But If Your Busy And Dont Have Time To Do As Perscribed By The Original Gentlemen Where The Ho Wanted It Done The Next Day And He Would Have To Charge For Overtime Implications. Maybe He Can Limit His Scope Of Work Do It For The Price He Suggested And Make More Money Than He Would Have Made Doing The Complete Job.


Capitalizing every first letter in every word makes posts very hard to read... also, hitting the enter key every once in awhile does not hurt either. :D just some friendly posting pointers...

[480sparky]

Capitalizing every first letter in every word makes posts very hard to read... also, hitting the enter key every once in awhile does not hurt either. :D just some friendly posting pointers...

His CAPS LOCK (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/caps_lock.jpg)is on, and his web browser automatically changes all but the first letter of each word to lower case.

[AV ELECTRIC]

His CAPS LOCK (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/caps_lock.jpg)is on, and his web browser automatically changes all but the first letter of each word to lower case.


Your wright sparkey i did. It is kind of hard to read !

[bradleyelectric]

Ive Given Bids To Many People And They Said Thats Way To Expensive And They Will Get Someone Else. Were Saying That If They Want To Do A Portion Of The Work Like Digging The Trench Why Not. Dont Have To Worry About Underground Services Or Big Rocks. I Understand If You Are Slow You Might Not Suggest This Approach But If Your Busy And Dont Have Time To Do As Perscribed By The Original Gentlemen Where The Ho Wanted It Done The Next Day And He Would Have To Charge For Overtime Implications. Maybe He Can Limit His Scope Of Work Do It For The Price He Suggested And Make More Money Than He Would Have Made Doing The Complete Job.


Let me see if I read that right. If you charged good money to do the job you wouldn't get to do as many, but you do it for cheap so you are so busy you can't do the complete job? How about the legalities of who is pulling the permits and someone different doing the work?

[220/221]

I Always Wondered Why Some People Posted Like That.


Hey...alll Mine Are Caps???


COOOL...THEY ARE NOT.


I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY

I ALSO LEARNED THAT WHEN YOU EDIT, IT'S ALL CAPS AGAIN

[480sparky]

I Always Wondered Why Some People Posted Like That.


Hey...alll Mine Are Caps???


COOOL...THEY ARE NOT.


I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY

I ALSO LEARNED THAT WHEN YOU EDIT, IT'S ALL CAPS AGAIN

I'm not sure, but I think it's a combination of your browser and net provider.

[peter d]

Nope I Just Skipped Over The Post Because It Was Too Hard To Read...

Kind Of Like Waves On The Ocean, Isn't It?

[infinity]

I bid it at 3,700.00 and the owner said I was nuts and did not know what I was doing he said the parts should only cost 2,500.00 max with that said thats 1,200.00 left to pay insurance permits ........... Am I crazy or is he give me your honest opinion don't hold back

I hope for your sake that you don't need work so badly that you actually take this job. This guy will be a nightmare to work for from the beginning to the end. Run, don't walk away from this mess.