Surprising notice at HD!!! What the???

[jjhoward]

Ok, in only 1 day you can be an electro-ishen..hurry on in folks!

1532

[romexking]

You should stop by and see what mis information they are spewing

[jjhoward]

You should stop by and see what mis information they are spewing

Or, maybe I should go with a handfull of biz cards?

[zog]

Either way you have to go and mess with them.

I did that at Hover Dam, really messed up the tour guide, he was giving poor information about the ABB transformers in the basin (We are standing right by them with 40 Ft high "ABB" markings on the transformer) when he asked how I knew he was wrong I handed him my ABB Business card.

[TwinCitySparky]

Or, maybe I should go with a handfull of biz cards?

And one or two arc flash victim pictures...

[peter d]

I wouldn't say that's surprising at all. HD is the king of "you can do it, we can help."

I'd say I have a problem with this, but I don't because I like to be a DIY on my own home with plumbing.

[lpelectric]

"...Now class, you hook up this ground wire to yer rods and go to the water with it....yer drip loop's gotta be by yer porcelin knob....and put yer meter on the side-a-the house and strap her down good. Then yer electrik panel hangs on the cellar wall in back of yer dryer 'n washer machine. Stop bye here tomorraw an' I'll go over with ya 'bout gfi's 'n afi's. You can go now." :D

[quogueelectric]

"...Now class, you hook up this ground wire to yer rods and go to the water with it....yer drip loop's gotta be by yer porcelin knob....and put yer meter on the side-a-the house and strap her down good. Then yer electrik panel hangs on the cellar wall in back of yer dryer 'n washer machine. Stop bye here tomorraw an' I'll go over with ya 'bout gfi's 'n afi's. You can go now." :D
Can I call for an inspection now??

[jjhoward]

Wait a min; they didn't say nothin bout INSPEKSUNS! Somone for the Depot goin check out my work?

[cschmid]

maybe should contact the state inspection department and have them send someone anonymously there and take notes if enough bad info is given out the state could force them into not giving any future advice..

[SmithBuilt]

It looks like this would be such a huge liability for them. Especially in todays world of law suits.

[Pierre C Belarge]

Send the picture, location and other pertinent info to the local licensing or other jurisdictional individuals. If there is anything that can be done, they are the ones who will do it. Keep us informed.

[zog]

Next week - Open Heart Surgery - In the Tool department.

You can do it, we can help.

[jjhoward]

Hello Pierre;
Is there anything NJ would do?

It is legal for HOs in NJ to do anything in there home as long as it is not
rental property AND the local town gives them a permit.

I have worked with some customers that have submitted a permit app to the town and they were told by the local AHJ to get a licensed EC to do the work. But that is not the norm.

[Dennis Alwon]

The sad truth is that in many states it is not illegal to do the wiring on your own home. What those states don't realize is someone else is going to be stuck with a job that is very likely non code compliant.

I have no issues with people wanted to save money but safety can be an issue.

[iwire]

Here in MA that is no problem, home owners can do their own work and I think that is how it should be.

[growler]

I don't think there is anything illegal about what HD is doing. When you get down to it they are giving a class in basic residential wiring. In most places a homeowner is allowed to do their own work.

Unless they advise the customer to do something really dangerous I don't think you could touch them.

They will probably use the class to sell a bunch of their home wiring books ( which the homeowner won't read anyway) and any other training materials and tools ( many that will never be used ).

If you think about it there are advertisements where they offer to teach anyone to become an electrician by correspondence course. I really don't think that's possible but that doesn't keep them from selling the training materials.

The reason most homeowners can't do their own electrical work is because they expect everthing to be easy and when they find out how much time and effort is really involved they give up and call someone.

[Lxnxjxhx]

After applying local anesthesia to your scalp, using a compressed-air nailer they implant a microchip into your brain containing the current NEC and all necessary tutorials, local ordinances, algorithms, rules-of-thumb, math, etc..

You may experience a headache for a day or so.

Updates are charged by the month and can only be downloaded at your local HD.

[satcom]

Just give it time, like going thru a red light, sooner or later there is an accident, As soon as some weekend DIY electric project built, with the skilled HD instructors lessons, kills father of four, the HD managment will continue it's program, they just don't get electrical work is not a Hobby, or in some cases a DIY project.

[mdshunk]

Nothing wrong with teaching, or attempting to teach, someone. Information should not be restricted. There's no reason for that. Actually doing the work is a totally different thing than teaching and learning about it. Even the TV shows have disclaimers that say the information is not necessarily complete or accurate. Edu-tainment is the buzzword. Sorta the same idea as HD. Do you really think they want to teach someone how to wire their home, or do they just want to present enough information to get a bit of foot traffic in the store during an otherwise slow time of day and sell a few electrical supplies and tools? It's just marketing, and if someone learns a little something in the mean time, that's a good thing. If they actually perform some work and screw it up, that's their problem to deal with, not HD's. Nobody's making anyone do anything.

[480sparky]

....Even the TV shows have disclaimers that say the information is not necessarily complete or accurate.....

Ever notice how those TV shows like HomeTime or This Old House rarely, if ever, deal with electrical? It's because they already know those two words producers find so hard so say....."Product Liability".

[Rewire]

I need to take the camera to HD and get a picture of the mock-up service they have on display and we all can play spot the violation.

[mdshunk]

Ever notice how those TV shows like HomeTime or This Old House rarely, if ever, deal with electrical? It's because they already know those two words producers find so hard so say....."Product Liability".
I don't know why anyone would be scared of information.

Boo!

[iwire]

It's because they already know those two words producers find so hard so say....."Product Liability".

I don't really believe that is it.

I think it has more to do with what the viewers want to see. If producers where really worried about liability shows like Fear Factor, Jackass (TV show / Movie) would not be around.

Think about what TOH does show, changing out carrying beams of an entire home, how to temporarily support a pouch roof while working under it, how to install chimneys, fireplaces, wood stoves, working from ladders and staging, how to demo a entire roof, how to knock walls down. All of these activities can be very dangerous.

Honestly I think the answer is much more basic, to most viewers watching someone run wire is like watching grass grow.

[satcom]

I don't really believe that is it.

I think it has more to do with what the viewers want to see. If producers where really worried about liability shows like Fear Factor, Jackass (TV show / Movie) would not be around.

Think about what TOH does show, changing out carrying beams of an entire home, how to temporarily support a pouch roof while working under it, how to install chimneys, fireplaces, wood stoves, working from ladders and staging, how to demo a entire roof, how to knock walls down. All of these activities can be very dangerous.

Honestly I think the answer is much more basic, to most viewers watching someone run wire is like watching grass grow.

TOH sure pushes the limits at times, we may never know how many how many injures resulted from some of these activities.

[iwire]

TOH sure pushes the limits at times, we may never know how many how many injures resulted from some of these activities.

And everyone of those injuries is entirely the fault of the people doing the work, not of TOH. Living is a dangerous pastime.

[jjhoward]

The sign stopped me in my tracks. I do think that this type of propaganda can add to the HOs case of sticker shock at bid time.

"Why does it cost $2700 to install cans and closet lights and switches in 3 bedrooms? A case of 6 recessed lights are ONLY $56 at the depot!
AND they can show me how to do it."

It makes closing the sale more difficult.

[electricalperson]

The sign stopped me in my tracks. I do think that this type of propaganda can add to the HOs case of sticker shock at bid time.

"Why does it cost $2700 to install cans and closet lights and switches in 3 bedrooms? A case of 6 recessed lights are ONLY $56 at the depot!
AND they can show me how to do it."

It makes closing the sale more difficult.
thats a pretty large problem i find in the residential market. a lot of people tell me they know what stuff costs so it shouldnt be that much. then when they get an estimate the jaw hits the floor. "a panel should only be about a hundred bucks or so and ground rods are not that much money either" :roll:

[coulter]

And one or two arc flash victim pictures...
I don't think I have ever heard of an arc-flash incident involving a 200A 120/240v panel fed from a 15kva xfm. What would that be, a Haz Cat -1?

carl

[coulter]

The sad truth is that in many states it is not illegal to do the wiring on your own home. ....
If you think that is a sad truth, wait till I fly the airplane my dad and I are building over your house:D Yes we are, and it's not an ultralight, 1920lbs gross, 200hp Lycoming. Do you really think it is as dangerous for me to wire my own house? Which I did, and plumbing, roofing, and ...

carl

[peter d]

Honestly I think the answer is much more basic, to most viewers watching someone run wire is like watching grass grow.

Now would you be saying that if you were the celebrity electrician? :D

[growler]

If you think that is a sad truth, wait till I fly the airplane my dad and I are building over your house:D Yes we are, and it's not an ultralight, 1920lbs gross, 200hp Lycoming. Do you really think it is as dangerous for me to wire my own house? Which I did, and plumbing, roofing, and ...

You can probably do all that other stuff you claim to do but Flyfishing takes real skill. :grin: :grin: :grin:

**Note: See profile

[hardworkingstiff]

... wait till I fly the airplane my dad and I are building over your house:D Yes we are, and it's not an ultralight, 1920lbs gross, 200hp Lycoming.
Do you need licensing in order to take it up? (plane, not pilot)

[cschmid]

now that fly fishing is fun..now if I can be that celebrity electrician I could work a week fish a couple of months..man that mail box money would sure be good...:D

[nizak]

Our local HD just recently hired a licensed electrician to work in their electrical department, I was also told that they hired a licensed plumber as well. I was told by another employee that this indivduals pay was $25/hr, I sure wish they had more openings, even part time would be fine.

[stickboy1375]

Our local HD just recently hired a licensed electrician to work in their electrical department, I was also told that they hired a licensed plumber as well. I was told by another employee that this indivduals pay was $25/hr, I sure wish they had more openings, even part time would be fine.


I've seen $27/hr openings around my area, some were posted on this site as well.

[peter d]

I've seen $27/hr openings around my area, some were posted on this site as well.

To work at Home Depot?????

[kjp]

Our local HD just recently hired a licensed electrician to work in their electrical department, I was also told that they hired a licensed plumber as well. I was told by another employee that this indivduals pay was $25/hr, I sure wish they had more openings, even part time would be fine.
if our license does not allow us to legally connect and energize wiring that was done by someone else, then how does it allow us to advise someone on what to buy and how to put it together?

[stickboy1375]

To work at Home Depot?????

Yep.... believe it or not. But, I believe the job was more of dealing with contractors not walking around the store suggesting how to hang a fan...;)

[480sparky]

To work at Home Depot?????


Start by clicking here (https://careers.homedepot.com/cg/content.do?p=skilledtrades).

[peter d]

Yep.... believe it or not. But, I believe the job was more of dealing with contractors not walking around the store suggesting how to hang a fan...;)

Oh, the contractor desk...makes sense. They should want someone who has half a clue to work at that.

[stickboy1375]

Start by clicking here (https://careers.homedepot.com/cg/content.do?p=skilledtrades).


Too much work to fill all that out... :grin:

[tmbrk]

I'm surprised they're teaching anyone to do any of their own electrical work. The HDs in my area advertise that they offer electrical service work. Look in one of their contractor services brochures. That's why I avoid them as much as I can. Why should we buy materials from our competition?:roll:

[mark32]

Due to the fact I am an "Electrical Specialist" at a HD, I'd like to be part of this discussion. First I agree that the HD's "How to wire your house" sign is laughable. Thank goodness no one has asked me to conduct such classes. In the recent past I posted a pic I took myself of the "Ampacity Guide" they have displayed over the wire rack. All of the ampacity ratings are from the 90 degree column but that info is not stated; so some dude looks up at it and thinks, "Cool, I can put #6 copper on a 75 amp breaker". Anyway, in an effort to speedily assist the contractors and help inform the home owner, Home Depot has begun hiring licensed plumbers and electricians. So I'd like to think that I'm doing good by helping both types of customers, both experienced and non. It is frustrating, however, when a homeowner comes in looking to do his own work because he doesn't like the quote his electrician gave him. This particular person knows only enough to be dangerous and I tell them to get another quote but should expect it to be similar because you are paying for experience and a job done right. (I also try to make him see that not all that $ goes into the Electrician's pocket as a contractor has a lot of overhead) I ask them if they have a lot of time to kill because they're going to be making numerous trips back and forth to the store for materials they didn't know they needed not to mention that the job will likely be much harder than they anticipated. I also throw in the best advice I can give: Just because it works doesn't mean it's safe.

One more thing, just as someone was saying, HD does many things in order to get people in the door, such as these how to classes. Another thing which I became aware of last week is the markup on some of the items. I thought it was a mistake when I saw the paperwork for 1000' reel of 14/2 romex. Apparently HD was paying $186 and selling it for $180. I brought this to my supervisors attention but said that's perfectly normal, the low price is just to get people in the door.

[stickboy1375]

Oh, the contractor desk...makes sense. They should want someone who has half a clue to work at that.


The money is still not bad, think about it, inside all year round, cute girls, free coffee, cute girls, nice benefits, did I mention cute girls? :grin:

[tmbrk]

I ask them if they have a lot of time to kill because they're going to be making numerous trips back and forth to the store for materials they didn't know they needed not to mention that the job will likely be much harder than they anticipated. I also throw in the best advice I can give: Just because it works doesn't mean it's safe.

Do you also tell them that they will have to make numerous trips to the supply house for all the stuff they will need that HD doesn't carry?

One more thing, just as someone was saying, HD does many things in order to get people in the door, such as these how to classes. Another thing which I became aware of last week is the markup on some of the items. I thought it was a mistake when I saw the paperwork for 1000' reel of 14/2 romex. Apparently HD was paying $186 and selling it for $180. I brought this to my supervisors attention but said that's perfectly normal, the low price is just to get people in the door.

Then they mark up a bunch of other stuff. I'll stick with my supply house.:smile:

[480sparky]

....Apparently HD was paying $186 and selling it for $180. I brought this to my supervisors attention but said that's perfectly normal, the low price is just to get people in the door.

It's called a "Loss Leader" item.

[mdshunk]

Then they mark up a bunch of other stuff. I'll stick with my supply house.:smile:
Although HD and Lowe's can sometimes beat the socks off a supply house with their loss-leaders, they are still more expensive for the whole job. A couple years ago I RFQ'd Lowes, Home Depot, and two supply houses with a couple materials lists. Both supply houses beat the big-box stores with the bottom line price by a pretty good margin. Almost 10%, as I recall. I guess if a guy had time on his hands he could scurry around getting the cheap stuff at Lowe's and HD, and the rest at the supply house. Me, I just use Lowe's and HD if I need something I know they have for a job I'm at that's closer to them than a regular supply house. I'm not ashamed that I do like their PVC bends that have a bell end on the one end. They don't sell them at any of my supply houses.

[mark32]

"Do you also tell them that they will have to make numerous trips to the supply house for all the stuff they will need that HD doesn't carry?"

Ha ha, that's a good one. Actually we have a descent selection of material but of course I end up sending someone to a supply house everyday. I'm trying to get more contractor brands on the shelf (3m, Arlington, Slater, etc) but no luck just yet. Also trying to keep the popular items on the shelf is sometimes a hassle but it's getting too late to write about that.

As far as the markup goes, I think just about everyone is happy paying HD prices, the problem is getting in and out of the store as opposed to going to a supply house, no?

[mdshunk]

...the problem is getting in and out of the store as opposed to going to a supply house, no?
Got that right. The 'contractor' line should only be for contractors and not every wannabee with a tape rule clipped on his belt. Often when I go in, I see empty registers, so I zip back quickly and get my couple things, then go back up front and people with cartloads of plywood and lumber have things all clogged up. 900 employees standing around, but none of them can open a register quick and check a few people out?

[tmbrk]

"Do you also tell them that they will have to make numerous trips to the supply house for all the stuff they will need that HD doesn't carry?"

Ha ha, that's a good one. Actually we have a descent selection of material but of course I end up sending someone to a supply house everyday. I'm trying to get more contractor brands on the shelf (3m, Arlington, Slater, etc) but no luck just yet. Also trying to keep the popular items on the shelf is sometimes a hassle but it's getting too late to write about that.

As far as the markup goes, I think just about everyone is happy paying HD prices, the problem is getting in and out of the store as opposed to going to a supply house, no?

That is true that they are all over the place and I do still use them when I need something in a pinch. I used to use them alot but I think what really turned me off of them in the first place is that they not only don't carry alot of stuff but also they won't order it either.

A couple of years ago I did a price comparison between the supply house and HD concerning Lutron Maestro dimmers. I needed about twenty masters and eight slaves. I could not believe how much more money they wanted at HD.

[zog]

I don't think I have ever heard of an arc-flash incident involving a 200A 120/240v panel fed from a 15kva xfm. What would that be, a Haz Cat -1?

carl

Thats not even self sustaining, HRC 0.

[louisfulleriv@yahoo.com]

I hope someone will call l think that Home Depot is a bad place for info sorry

[LarryFine]

HD is the king of "you can do it, we can help."
Some years back, that was Diet Pepsi's slogan.

[electricmanscott]

A couple of years ago I did a price comparison between the supply house and HD concerning Lutron Maestro dimmers. I needed about twenty masters and eight slaves. I could not believe how much more money they wanted at HD.


And I bet if your customer did a price comparison they would not believe how much more money you wanted than HD.

Why is it that we are always crying about what we have to pay for stuff and yet we cry just as much when the customer crys about what they are paying us?? :-?

I have no problem with HD conducting thse seminars or whatever you want to call them. And I have no problem with DIYs. I am one.

The reality most overlook here is that the home improvement boom took off at the same time HD and Lowes went nationwide in a big way. There is a connection. I for one have personally benefitted from it.

Thank you Home Depot!!

[ElectricianJeff]

I was in the blue big box just yesterday to pick up a small ground bar since my supply house doesn't carry anything smaller than about 8"'s.

The guy checking out in front of me had a basket which consisted of about 20 open rings for can lights a dozen or so switches, about 3 dozen 20 amp receps. all in gray. I found this a rather unusual combination and asked him "None of my business, but what are you wiring up there?"

He told me he was finishing his mom's basement and was getting ready to finish out the wiring. I asked him why he was using 20 amp. receps. and he admitted he really wasn't sure. I then asked him if he was using #12 or #14. and again he said he really wasn't sure. So I asked him what color the romex wiring was and he told me it was white.

I told him he really didn't need the 20 amp and he could save alot of money and go get the 15's which are alot cheaper. He told me he noticed that but he prefered to overkill on things since it was Mom's house and all. He thanked me for the tip and said he would remember that next time.

Makes me wonder how much money is wasted by homeowners doing things wrong.

Jeff

[ultramegabob]

I was in the blue big box just yesterday to pick up a small ground bar since my supply house doesn't carry anything smaller than about 8"'s.

The guy checking out in front of me had a basket which consisted of about 20 open rings for can lights a dozen or so switches, about 3 dozen 20 amp receps. all in gray. I found this a rather unusual combination and asked him "None of my business, but what are you wiring up there?"

He told me he was finishing his mom's basement and was getting ready to finish out the wiring. I asked him why he was using 20 amp. receps. and he admitted he really wasn't sure. I then asked him if he was using #12 or #14. and again he said he really wasn't sure. So I asked him what color the romex wiring was and he told me it was white.

I told him he really didn't need the 20 amp and he could save alot of money and go get the 15's which are alot cheaper. He told me he noticed that but he prefered to overkill on things since it was Mom's house and all. He thanked me for the tip and said he would remember that next time.

Makes me wonder how much money is wasted by homeowners doing things wrong.

Jeff

I wonder if he used 30 amp breakers on the #14 wire that he probly daisy chained all over the house that hes installing 20 amp recepts on, to assure that mom doesnt trip the breaker when she plugs in her space heater, microwave, vacuum cleaner, etc......

[TwinCitySparky]

I don't think I have ever heard of an arc-flash incident involving a 200A 120/240v panel fed from a 15kva xfm. What would that be, a Haz Cat -1?

carl

Oh geez - Hello Mr. Literal. What was I thinking? No danger with a home panel at all. If they open the panel and touch those big fat wires attempting to add that 14/2, Nothing bad will happen. VERY little danger there. You work nights at the homey D right? Point was, the pictures might give an idea... Oh nevermind. Let them at it!!

I'll go back to my "lurker corner" and avoid future temptation to post anything useful. (Like most who silently frequent this board.) Gee, I wonder why that happens so much?? :rolleyes: :cool:

[ElectricianJeff]

I wonder if he used 30 amp breakers on the #14 wire that he probly daisy chained all over the house that hes installing 20 amp recepts on, to assure that mom doesnt trip the breaker when she plugs in her space heater, microwave, vacuum cleaner, etc......

I would of liked to talk with him more but he seemed in a big hurry to go burn up his mom's house.:wink:

Jeff

[coulter]

You can probably do all that other stuff you claim to do but Flyfishing takes real skill....
I'm working on that. It must be a hoot watching me. Tying the line around my head, one hook stuck in my cheek (so far). I didn't get to go last summer. Maybe this year.

carl

[coulter]

Oh geez - Hello Mr. Literal. ...
Ummmm.... Yeah, pretty much.

I'll go back to my "lurker corner" and avoid future temptation to post anything useful.
Too bad. I've always though your comments were worth reading.

carl