Cameras

[480sparky]

New poll this morning, this one about cameras. I carry a digital in the truck at all times, so I thought I'd find out how many of you use one. Besides, it was suggested I post this as a new thread by another member here, so here it is.

Cameras, IMPO, are a necessity these days. As soon as I'm done with about any major portion of a job, I take pix. A lot of pix. Every wall, every panel, every ceiling. Inside & out. If it's a big job, I take pix 2-3 times a week. I just walk the job and take anywhere from 50 (if it's resi) to 100 or more (commercial) each day.

I download them on to the computer, both laptop & desktop. This can save your butt some day. I remember working in a restaurant and having to run conduit above the grid. When we got done the plumbers came in and tore the grid up. GC blamed us, and wanted us to pay. I pulled out the laptop and said, "Here, look. On this day, there's no grid..... now on this day, here it us. Do you see any conduit up there? No? OK, here's the same area the following week. See all the conduit we ran? OK, do you see any damage to the grid? No. Now, two days later, here's the plumbers, and look what's happened."

When all is said & done, I burn a lot of photos onto CDs for the owner. They really appreciate having them, and it a great PR tool (especially with writable-CDs being what, 20¢?).

Cameras are also great for documenting damaged shipments, vehicle accidents, on-the-job accidents, etc.

Another use is for finding boxes the drywallers buried. Case in point: Now you see them....

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/nowyouseeit.jpg


Now you don't!
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/nowyoudont.jpg


The trick is to get into a routine, and use a pattern as you take the photos so they all have the same viewpoint. On residential, I walk along with the wall to my right. When I reach a corner, I turn and take a shot of the wall opposite the one I just walked along. Then I turn to the left, go to the next corner, and repeat. (I hope this makes sense) So after I take these photos, I would walk over to the doorway on the right, and take a shot of the wall that's on the left in the photos above.

[chris kennedy]

You know I carry one at all times. Great tool for comunicating with the office.

[Pierre C Belarge]

I think you all know my stance on the need/use for cameras.

As a contractor there are multiple uses, almost an absolute need for pictures of jobsites today.
I know a contractor who has a shop of about 7 men. To date he has approximately 70,000 pictures all in job files, of course taken by him and his men.
When he goes to make an estimate he takes a small video camera.
He has had a large reduction in mistakes on the job and little trouble from customers since providing pictures.

All of his men also carry laptops. When they have a question, they take a picture, load it to the laptop and send it to him. Decisions based on the pictures have become a lot easier. He also does not have to visit the jobsites as much as before, freeing up some of his time to be more creative and spend with his family.

Not bad for just taking pictures. ;)

[frizbeedog]

I need to start using mine more to the extent that you are using it.

Thank you for the great insights. I'm sure that using the camera the way you do only helps to ease the hassle over disputes. Seems like it has become just part of your routine.

I use mine for estimating, snaping pictures during the walkthrough. Because when I get back to the office there is always something I didn't consider. And whoever gets assigned the job has a leg up on the way in. Saves a lot of questions during the project breifing.

Great tool for selling service upgrades. It gives the customer some examples of what they are going to get for thier money. Here's the price and it will look like this example.

[bikeindy]

I used the same aproach as you with the photos you show, but I have found a can of blue paint works great to mark every box we have put in. I will be at a job where I did this later and take some photos to show what I mean.

[ItsHot]

Digital cameras have become a valuable tool for so many trades. A friend of mine who is a builder ,actually would take it to the next step and us a video camera way back when the building market was a lot busier. He was on the right terms with the inspectors. Instead of waiting to pour the footers, he would video them for the inspector, and they could be viewed when needed. The photos posted made me wonder if there is a box finder on the market similiar to a stud finder??? In the event that the drywallers have covered a box, I usually just locate it with a framing hammer!:D :grin:

[480sparky]

I used the same aproach as you with the photos you show, but I have found a can of blue paint works great to mark every box we have put in. I will be at a job where I did this later and take some photos to show what I mean.


I do the same thing, but with orange.

A single line is a recep, an S is a switch or counter-height recep, and an arrow is something higher, like a wall sconce or fire strobe.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/DSC05842a.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/DSC05841a.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/DSC05843a.jpg


Can lights, lights, ceiling fans, smokes, etc. get marked roughly under where they are.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/DSC05849a.jpg

[bikeindy]

Thanks I don't need to take pictures now.

[480sparky]

Marking a whole house only takes 5 or 6 minutes. I get about 4 or 5 houses out of a $4 can of upside-down paint. So it's cheap insurance.

And once the drywallers catch on to the method you use, they don't tend to bury much. If they do, it's easy to find. Just make sure you don't make the floors in an area that's not getting any carpet/tile/linoleum/etc. That's why the garage in my first post wasn't marked.

As soon as the rock goes up, you can see in an instant anything that got covered. Dig it out before the mud goes up and you're less likely to get back-charged for drywall damage.

[Pierre C Belarge]

I do the same thing, but with orange.

A single line is a recep, an S is a switch or counter-height recep, and an arrow is something higher, like a wall sconce or fire strobe.



http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/DSC05841a.jpg




Can lights, lights, ceiling fans, smokes, etc. get marked roughly under where they are.


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/DSC05849a.jpg


I thought orange was reserved in the NEC for 'highlegs'?

Only kidding, that is a good method, including the pictures as well.

I will add, that pictures can be a good method for a contractor to convey a message to new help that will try to learn his method of installations.

[LarryFine]

As soon as the rock goes up, you can see in an instant anything that got covered. Dig it out before the mud goes up and you're less likely to get back-charged for drywall damage. Back-charge us??? :cool: For doing their job?

[ultramegabob]

a customer of mine that owns billboards has me travel around inspecting the signs and making repairs, I sometimes take pictures to show the condition of the equipment. one time a 400+ dollar astro timer was the home of an ant colony, the ants laying eggs inside it destroyed the electronics, it made for some really neat pictures. I also would take pictures to document that all the lamps worked and the switches that controlled each side of the sign were in the "on" position before I left...

[mdshunk]

My camera has a video function, so my "buried box insurance" is a video. Much quicker. I thought about marking the floors, but about 9 out of 10 times when I go back to do my trim, the floor finish materials are already installed. Most of the things I take pictures of are just things that are sufficiently weird or interesting.

[480sparky]

Back-charge us??? :cool: For doing their job?

I've had to dig many boxes out after the wall is finished. Sometimes, there's a bit a collateral damage (nail/screws pop out, or I don't find the exact location on the first try, etc.). The CG can backcharge you then.

But I generally have enough evidence (namely, photos :smile: ) to show him that it got covered up, and that I should be able to backcharge the drywallers.

My camera has a video function.....

As does mine, but I don't carry a tripod.

[bikeindy]

My camera has a video function, so my "buried box insurance" is a video. Much quicker. I thought about marking the floors, but about 9 out of 10 times when I go back to do my trim, the floor finish materials are already installed. Most of the things I take pictures of are just things that are sufficiently weird or interesting.

I let the GC know that I have marked everything and If something is covered it is simply not my fault and I will be back charging to find boxes. They are at the site after drywall so it only takes them 5 minutes to make sure nothing is covered.

[tmbrk]

I don't use mine nearly enough.

Now you see them....Now you don't!

Nice job documenting! Saved yourself alot of grief.:wink:

[hardworkingstiff]

I've had to dig many boxes out after the wall is finished. Sometimes, there's a bit a collateral damage (nail/screws pop out, or I don't find the exact location on the first try, etc.). The CG can backcharge you then.



I would not accept a backcharge in that scenario.

[charlie b]

I don't get out into the field very often in my present job. But when in the field I have a camera with me.

[frizbeedog]

Marking a whole house only takes 5 or 6 minutes. I get about 4 or 5 houses out of a $4 can of upside-down paint. So it's cheap insurance.

And once the drywallers catch on to the method you use, they don't tend to bury much. If they do, it's easy to find. Just make sure you don't make the floors in an area that's not getting any carpet/tile/linoleum/etc. That's why the garage in my first post wasn't marked.

As soon as the rock goes up, you can see in an instant anything that got covered. Dig it out before the mud goes up and you're less likely to get back-charged for drywall damage.

....I've used the paint method in the past, but with the pictures it seems unnecessary. Unless it's primarily to comunicate to the drywallers. I just might get my paint out again.

[JohnJ0906]

Amazing the work we do because another trade cannot be trusted to do their job properly.

[stickboy1375]

Amazing the work we do because another trade cannot be trusted to do their job properly.


Yep, I hardly ever leave wires in the wall for future lights, etc... I've gone back to jobs and found vanity lite wires in a closet instead of the bathroom, Tstat wires always get pinched behind the drywall, etc. :rolleyes: I dont know what trade is worse, the insulators, or the drywallers ?

[ultramegabob]

Amazing the work we do because another trade cannot be trusted to do their job properly.

I just did a job where I asked the guys installing the plastic/fiberglass paneling in the commercial kitchen to let me rotozip all the boxes, they screwed up everything they touched, and I didnt want them to mangle my wires. i just asked them to make a center hole over each box and I did the rest, and I marked the floor for locations also...

[stickboy1375]

i just asked them to make a center hole over each box and I did the rest, and I marked the floor for locations also...

Did they question this request? Or did they already know they sucked? :grin:

[cadpoint]

I don't think alot of guys, need a camera, with electrical installation.
Now I'm not going againest anything said so far, truely.

Its great for all the things mentioned, record copy, where installed, what where, when, sure!

But really should workers have to take a picture of a correct installation ?
I can truely relate to the misunderstood part of an install and hey this cases a question. If something that complex comes up shouldn't that well be discussed and applied correctly before being required to be fixed?

I dragged the camera in to take the pictures, (with updates today) theres not a camera (company owned) on site.

I truely beleive its a great application, thanks for sharing your pictures, and your thoughts. :smile:

I've voted with 4.

[480sparky]

....But really should workers have to take a picture of a correct installation ?...

Any easier way to teach?

Such as this thread (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=98521).

[ultramegabob]

Did they question this request? Or did they already know they sucked? :grin:


there was alot of tension on this job between all the trades and these yahoos, they just told me to "Knock yourself out..." it was less work for them.

[cadpoint]

I'm all for the education, enlightment, and long thoughts that this forum presents.

I had to work yesterday and missed that thread. Thanks.

Its scarey what photo's do get shown :( keep it up, theres a running tally on photo bucket... keep them coming... :wink:

[wireman]

I would love to take a camera w/me when going out to quote projects, etc.
We do 100% industrial work and all have a policy against bringing in cameras. Most even remind us that the cameras on cell phones cannot be used. The enforcement of these policies is somewhat uneven, but if the wrong person sees you taking pictures then it can raise a huge stink.

It is understandable why they don't want everyone snapping pictures but it sure would make it easier for vendors quoting work at their facility.

[roger3829]

Back-charge us??? :cool: For doing their job?


I agree.

I never have been backed charged to having to "correct" someone else's problem. It's not my fault if there are holes to patch, nail pops, or repainting to be done.

I'm also don't think that I should have to do more work to assist them in doing their's by marking where they are supposed to cut holes.

[brantmacga]

I would not accept a backcharge in that scenario.

Neither would I. Its not us covering up the boxes. The drywall contractor gets paid to cut the boxes out, and if they don't, they didn't do their job. I once had over 30 boxes covered on a single job. Me and my helper (I was working for another contractor at this time) took out all the drywall below 36" in the house (about 1200 sq. ft.). I was in a rage :mad: , so that's why all the drywall came out. ;) we had 5 houses in a row that were all exactly the same. The first house had maybe 4 boxes covered, then add a couple more on the next and so on; by the 4th house they had almost 20 covered. I guess they thought I didn't mind going behind them and cutting out what they missed. Anyway, there was no backcharge to us for that incident.

As far as paint marking; I did it on that plastic box job I did a few weeks ago. The trim carpenter used orange to mark all of the studs so I used blue to mark boxes. I put a 'dot' in front of every low recep box, and two dots indicated a switch or high recep box. Metal boxes can be uncovered with a magnet.