what to do about fuel costs

[bobbyho]

It's official, I am now over $5.00 a gallon for diesel. $5.09 to be exact. Anyone have ideas how to deal with this. I don't really mean the usual pass it on to the customer but more in lines as far as how to do business differently. Maybe a smaller vehicle and attack it like they do in Europe. We will be there soon so I figure it's time to come up with another plan. I have a Sprinter and it does great but $180.00 to 200 to fill up, I (we) need a contigency plan. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas how to deal with the new reality.

[mdshunk]

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas how to deal with the new reality.
Keep doing what you're doing. Just charge accordingly.

[peter d]

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas how to deal with the new reality.

Move out of Connecticut. ;)

[mdshunk]

The reason many guys make the move to bigger trucks is so that they can have all the tools and material at hand to complete most anything they're sent out on. This increases productivity and the daily net per truck. I can't help but to think that any cost savings realized from driving a smaller truck would not even come close to the new loss of productivity you're now faced with. Just pass on the costs; everyone's in the same boat.

One suggestion, concentrate your marketing efforts in a smaller circle around home base. I go whole weeks without having to drive more than 10 miles in any direction from the shop for all my work.

[76nemo]

$4.09 for regular and $4.95 for diesel here in upstate NY. It's getting sickening. Who's getting rich here?

[Sparky555]

I know you don't want to hear about passing it on to the client, but...

What do you do if fuel is $10/gallon?
12ga is $200/roll?
1/2" EMT is $5/stick?

What can you do but recalculate your costs and charge accordingly? And look at the bright side...if you calculate profit as a percentage, you're making more $$.

Dave

[tmbrk]

$4.09 for regular and $4.95 for diesel here in upstate NY. It's getting sickening. Who's getting rich here?

Hugo Chavez, the Saudis, Big Oil execs, etc..............

I was already thinking of getting a small truck to pick up materials, go give estimates, etc. Something along the lines of a four cylinder, manual trans. Ford Ranger. I am also going to try to reduce my coverage area like Marc said. Other than that, pass the cost on.

[chris kennedy]

Hugo Chavez, the Saudis, Big Oil execs, etc..............

I was already thinking of getting a small truck to pick up materials, go give estimates, etc. Something along the lines of a four cylinder, manual trans. Ford Ranger. I am also going to try to reduce my coverage area like Marc said. Other than that, pass the cost on.
I'm getting 22-23 MPG with the 4 cylider deisel Frieghtliner. This is without running the AC but fully loaded. But deisel here is around $4.29. $112.00 to fuel up but I go about 2 weeks on a tank.

[tmbrk]

Deisel is as high as $5.29/gal in Chicago. Not as bad by me. Reg. unleaded is around $4.15/gal where I live. I figure at this rate I spend around $600/month in my Econoline.:mad:

I go through about a tank a week.

But summer is officially upon us. Let's see how high it can go.

[steved]

Maybe it's time to replace your Sprinter with one of these (http://worksmancycles.com/).

[mdshunk]

Maybe it's time to replace your Sprinter with one of these (http://worksmancycles.com/).
I like the one with the ice cream bin.

[tonyou812]

I filled up at 4.65 for diesel but you have to pay cash. 110 big ones. I got a sprinter just before the ship hit the fan...:mad:

[ptonsparky]

I wish I had the option of limiting my buisness to a 10 mi radius. I might, maybe, have 1000 people in that area. Put on 86 miles yesterday for three service calls. I am still struggling as to how to pass this all on. Decisions, decisions.

[76nemo]

Here I am,.....the guy in the yellow pages here to give an estimate. Can I leave my scooter here maam'?:roll:

Politics have no place here so I'll shut my mouth.

I'll stick a bottle of nitrous on a scooter and cut my travel time in half:grin:

[Rockyd]

$4.09 for regular and $4.95 for diesel here in upstate NY. It's getting sickening. Who's getting rich here?

Thank Congress and the greenies.

I'm from Alaska and ANWR would solve a lot of problems. The politicians of both parties have failed the American public miserably to allow the country to slide to this condition.

I hear the DC talking heads yammer on about how it would be only a penny a gallon difference yada, yada. How many have actually done research based on facts, about the north slope? Originally, Prudhoe was supposed to produce about 10 billion barrels and then be done. From 1977 to 2005 more than 13 billion barrels have came down the line! We are currently receiving about 760,000 barrels a day from the slope.

Till America excepts the fact that we need to drill, to fill, we shall continue to get the shaft. Being dependent upon foreign oil is freedom and strength sold out the window.




Check the taxes at the pump, the guv is getting the biggest part of money.

[HighWirey]

$4.09 for regular and $4.95 for diesel here in upstate NY. It's getting sickening. Who's getting rich here?

Answer: anyone who can.

Last week my physical therapist ordered two finger splints for me. Shipped UPS surface from Illinois to Florida. Package weighed one half pound. $13.45 USD!

Proudly printed on the bottom of the vendor's invoice:

"Regrettably, due to escalating fuel charges from our freight carriers, a fuel charge has been added to applicable orders".

The sad part is both UPS and the vendor added their own fuel surcharge.

We contractors must recover our cost, so go for it men. It just adds to the spiral that we did not initiate.

Best Wishes Everyone

[bobbyho]

Check out WATERPOWER.wmv. These are the kind of options that we need. Not digging for more oil. I am not about to run out and hug a tree but guess what? We need alternative sources and I won't go into politics but it can't be denied.

[mdshunk]

We need alternative sources and I won't go into politics but it can't be denied.
Yeah, I'd like to get me a nuclear powered GMC.

[nakulak]

Thank Congress and the greenies.

I'm from Alaska and ANWR would solve a lot of problems. The politicians of both parties have failed the American public miserably to allow the country to slide to this condition.

I hear the DC talking heads yammer on about how it would be only a penny a gallon difference yada, yada. How many have actually done research based on facts, about the north slope? Originally, Prudhoe was supposed to produce about 10 billion barrels and then be done. From 1977 to 2005 more than 13 billion barrels have came down the line! We are currently receiving about 760,000 barrels a day from the slope.

Till America excepts the fact that we need to drill, to fill, we shall continue to get the shaft. Being dependent upon foreign oil is freedom and strength sold out the window.




Check the taxes at the pump, the guv is getting the biggest part of money.

sorry, dude, but drilling holes in the ground and pumping the air full of deadly gasses isn't the answer. for the 3 trillion dollars spend lately on bombs we could have working alternatives. the oil companies regularly buy technology that would otherwise hurt their bottom line and shelve it, lets actually evolve instead of just talking about it.

[cadpoint]

I like the one with the ice cream bin.
Did anyone go to the cut sheets on the Bike's, most are for 215lb max load. I'm sorry I'm already near that weight, where's my tools go...
Well except for the new low riders they can hold more...

I frankly always wanted one of those old style three wheelers, don't ask me why! ¿ ? Kid wishes I guess ...
:grin:

[realolman]

sorry, dude, but drilling holes in the ground and pumping the air full of deadly gasses isn't the answer. for the 3 trillion dollars spend lately on bombs we could have working alternatives... .

Amen. Amen. and Amen.

Oh yeah... Amen

There's no way we can continue like we been doin.

You ( meaning everybody in every business ) are not going to be able to continue to pass your costs on to the consumer beacuse the consumer is about outta pocketbook.

This is a serious problem, and the same lame ol' stuff (ANWAR , tree huggers, reserves ...etc. ) ain't gonna cut it.

I hope no one's laughin too hard at the pedal powered service trucks. I don't think it's funny.

You do remember seeing pictures of India and China from 20 years ago don't you?

[Sparky555]

Let's just make everyone bring their projects to us.

Dave

[mdshunk]

Let's just make everyone bring their projects to us.
I'm thinking I might become Amish. Many of the Amish subs need to have the GC's pick them up and take them back home each day.

[480sparky]

I'm thinking I might become Amish. Many of the Amish subs need to have the GC's pick them up and take them back home each day.

How would you call in sick if you don't have a phone? You would also have to give up your cordless drill and megger.....:smile:

[iwire]

http://culturekitchen.com/files/no-politics.gif

[Sparky555]

http://culturekitchen.com/files/no-politics.gif

Shhhh. The baby's sleeping.

Dave

[jm1470]

I take my car on estimates and for going to the mailbox and running to the bank. The price of gas in jersey is the cheapest we are about at a 3.80 a gallon

[khixxx]

How would you call in sick if you don't have a phone?


Pigeons.....

[winnie]

I don't see how this topic could avoid at least touching on politics, since we are talking about core issues that could change the face of our economy, our environment, and our very way of life. At the same time, we have to remember that beyond politics there is the reality of the situation, and that if we can offer ideas and suggestions outside of politics, maybe we'll come up with some useful approaches that will actually make a difference.

Drilling ANWR would help keep oil prices lower. Any new source of oil would do that. At the same time, I think that it is important to understand how much of a difference ANWR could make; current estimates place the size of the reserves in ANWR as equal to US consumption for 1 or 2 years. Obviously the US wouldn't get all of its oil from a single source until it was tapped dry; but say that we pumped 1 million barrels per day (about 5% of US consumption) from this reserve; the reserve would last perhaps 20-40 years, but only make a very small change in oil prices or energy independence. IMHO ANWR would make about as much difference as getting people to carpool for 1 commute per week (but I've not really done the numbers in details, and am willing to be convinced otherwise.)

We could do something like build enough drilling and pumping capacity so that the US _could_ get all of it oil domestically; but then elect to keep that capacity in reserve, buying oil from the cheapest sources, but if needed we could turn the switch and basically boycott external sources. That might get them to keep their prices lower...but all of the necessary unused capacity would essentially amount to a tremendous tax.

Nuclear power is another approach, on that is both potentially much cleaner but also much scarier than continuing to burn oil.

The problem with nuclear power is the waste issue; the discussion of waste gets focused on things such 'how do we bury the stuff for thousands of years', but the _real_ way to deal with nuclear waste is 'nuclear incineration' or 'actinide burning'. Basically this involves processing the used fuel, and separating out the various radioactive species to be dealt with in an individually appropriate fashion. (The really violently radioactive stuff is just stored; it is gone after only a few months; the stuff that lasts millions of years isn't particularly dangerous so you bury it, and everything in between you run through the reactor again to convert into one of the two extremes.) The problem with this is that you have to use exactly the same isotope separation technology that you need to build a bomb; so using nuclear power becomes a problem of _people_; do you trust other people with access to the technology to build atomic bombs.

Biofuels are an attractive possibility, but right now we still don't know how to do them. Corn ethanol has been a disaster; a political sop to big agribusiness with lots of green paint; the problem is that it is not energy positive as currently done. Soy biodiesel is at least energy positive by a significant amount, but we don't have the available cropland.

I could babble on and on :)

-Jon

[iwire]

I don't see how this topic could avoid at least touching on politics,

I agree.

That is why the topic is a bit tough on this forum. :smile:

[peter d]

Here are some "no politics" facts about energy reserves.

-There is only so much of it the ground.

-The world population continues to grow and developing nations are demanding and using those resources. We are not the only kid on the block with a big appetite for oil anymore.

-Ever increasing demand on a finite resource will continue to push prices higher (basic economics) The current price pressure can only be alleviated by a large drop in demand (world wide recession/depression, major advance in auto technology that replaces our current fleet, etc)

-Most of the worlds oil has been located and the worlds reserves have been fully tapped out. Even additional supplies like ANWR will produce only a marginal increase in the supply, as Winnie pointed out. That increase in the supply will be offset by ever increasing demand.

So high prices are here to stay for the time being.

[mdshunk]

Here are some "no politics" facts about energy reserves.

-There is only so much of it the ground.

-The world population continues to grow and developing nations are demanding and using those resources. We are not the only kid on the block with a big appetite for oil anymore.

-Ever increasing demand on a finite resource will continue to push prices higher (basic economics) The current price pressure can only be alleviated by a large drop in demand (world wide recession/depression, major advance in auto technology that replaces our current fleet, etc)

-Most of the worlds oil has been located and the worlds reserves have been fully tapped out. Even additional supplies like ANWR will produce only a marginal increase in the supply, as Winnie pointed out. That increase in the supply will be offset by ever increasing demand.

So high prices are here to stay for the time being.All very good reasons to get more nuclear power online.

[peter d]

All very good reasons to get more nuclear power online.

I agree, it's a real shame that the nuclear option has been ignored for the last 30 or so years. But the reasons for that are purely political. :roll:

[growler]

I could babble on and on :)-Jon


Run for office, I'll vote for you. :D :D

[dbuckley]

we could turn the switch and basically boycott external sources.

Yes please.

If America were to stop buying oil on the international market then that would free up supply for China and India, and the world oil price would drop. Maybe even low enough so we could go back to OPEC regulating the prices. Heck, even Zimbabwe might be able to afford oil again.

[POWER_PIG]

My boss pays my fuel and for that Im grateful.....*knocks on wood
No rate increase since 2006 but Im sure that won't last much longer.

[bobbyho]

The US consumes roughly 20 million gallons of oil per day which equates to 476,190 barrels per day. ANWR holds an ESTIMATED 6 to 16 billion barrels. Notice the word estimated. Do you remember Giraldo and Al Capone's vaults? To dig up 20000 acres and find nothing would be bad. Still the problem won't go away. It is still a finite item. This is why I asked if anyone had a good idea. I would love to ask old timers in the business what they did in the past but I am thinking this might be different than then. I wasn't around then but I don't think China and India were players then. If it wasn't them it was someone else and still, I don't think it was to the extent it is today. I am fortunately busy. What I can't do anymore is free estimates. What I want to do is like Marc said and tighten my geographical circle. Which is exactly what I will start focusing on starting Tuesday.

[realolman]

....What I want to do is like Marc said and tighten my geographical circle. Which is exactly what I will start focusing on starting Tuesday.

I think this may be one of the effects.

I read what was a very interesting article in a magazine on a subject that I would have thought was very boring... Zoning.

Everything we do has been designed for driving.

Maybe there will be a return to neighborhoods and local stores and services..

[electricmanscott]

Unlike you guys I don't have all the answers. ;)

I do know this though. Every time the price of fuel goes up, (hourly it seems) I take a paycut.

Pass the cost on to the customer.

[wshoard]

The US consumes roughly 20 million gallons of oil per day which equates to 476,190 barrels per day. ANWR holds an ESTIMATED 6 to 16 billion barrels. Notice the word estimated. Do you remember Giraldo and Al Capone's vaults? To dig up 20000 acres and find nothing would be bad. Still the problem won't go away. It is still a finite item. This is why I asked if anyone had a good idea. I would love to ask old timers in the business what they did in the past but I am thinking this might be different than then. I wasn't around then but I don't think China and India were players then. If it wasn't them it was someone else and still, I don't think it was to the extent it is today. I am fortunately busy. What I can't do anymore is free estimates. What I want to do is like Marc said and tighten my geographical circle. Which is exactly what I will start focusing on starting Tuesday.

Yoy might want to check your numbers again. The US consumes over 20 million Barrels a day, not gallons.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

[peter d]

Unlike you guys I don't have all the answers. ;)


Yeah, it's pretty nice to be as smart and good looking as I am. :cool: :roll: ;)

[bobbyho]

Wshoard, thanks for the correction. I got my info at Pace University powerscorecard.org. (Or something like that) All I know is that it's a lot and we need alternative sources but that is a "horse of a different color".

[ItsHot]

It's official, I am now over $5.00 a gallon for diesel. $5.09 to be exact. Anyone have ideas how to deal with this. I don't really mean the usual pass it on to the customer but more in lines as far as how to do business differently. Maybe a smaller vehicle and attack it like they do in Europe. We will be there soon so I figure it's time to come up with another plan. I have a Sprinter and it does great but $180.00 to 200 to fill up, I (we) need a contigency plan. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas how to deal with the new reality. Raise your rates!:roll:

[mtec]

We do 80% construction, and have went to 4 10hr days. this cut out 1 trip to and from a week. about $1000 savings per truck per year. the guys like the 3 day weekend

[e57]

Those paying $5+ for diesel should and have every right to riot in the street IMO! The "splash and dash" (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14096723) has been going on for a while and doing some funny things to that price. And we all should be mad because 'supply & demand' have been turned on end, as numerous articals like this one suggest. (http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/apr2008/bw2008041_945564.htm) I think we are getting the gasoline version of Enron.... Because apparently there is no shortage of supply, refiners are not scrambeling to buy more, and actual demand has gone down slightly. Someone is making a lot of money....

[bobbyho]

Guys, let me rephrase where I was going with the question. I did not mean, how are you going to handle it economically. Naturally, it is going to have to be passed on to the customer. What I meant was, how are you going to handle this logistially? Like the latest post said, he is changing to a 4 day week, saving a trip. That is what I meant. How do we react to this new reality proactively and not reactivly?

[DanZ]

Guys, let me rephrase where I was going with the question. I did not mean, how are you going to handle it economically. Naturally, it is going to have to be passed on to the customer. What I meant was, how are you going to handle this logistially? Like the latest post said, he is changing to a 4 day week, saving a trip. That is what I meant. How do we react to this new reality proactively and not reactivly?

Honestly, I would evaluate your situation, see what work you do the most of, what you absolutely need to do most of your work, how small a vehicle you can stuff it in reasonably, and what type of driving you do the most of. If you can get most of your equipment in a SUV and you do mostly city (stop and go) driving, a hybrid (GMC Yukon) might be right. Assuming you can afford a new vehicle.

Like someone else said, they take their car on estimates and errands, that would help too, if your car is fuel efficient.

On another note, pretty much all of the "fuel saver" devices are bunk. The only reason I buy K&N air filters is because I tend to keep cars for a few years and they pay off that way.

One last note. Keep your truck maintained and in good working order, including running fuel system cleaner at every oil change, and replacing filters when you're supposed to can help your fuel economy. I drive a 96 Ford Taurus with a 3.0 L DOHC V6 an average of 60 miles a day just between work and home and average about 26.5 MPG.

[Sparky555]

It's official, I am now over $5.00 a gallon for diesel. $5.09 to be exact. Anyone have ideas how to deal with this. I don't really mean the usual pass it on to the customer but more in lines as far as how to do business differently. Maybe a smaller vehicle and attack it like they do in Europe. We will be there soon so I figure it's time to come up with another plan. I have a Sprinter and it does great but $180.00 to 200 to fill up, I (we) need a contigency plan. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas how to deal with the new reality.

As you don't like the "charge more" advice of my previous post, I'll try another that you may be using already. For years I would go to bid a job (residential service), go back to the office to work up the bid, then make a second trip for the installation. Now I bid the job in the truck with the materials for the installation. Half the travel.

Dave

[Dennis Alwon]

This about says it all-- so you must charge accordingly.

http://staticd.wisegeek.com/images/gas-prices.jpg

[Dennis Alwon]

Or this one if you still have a sense of humor about the whole issue.

http://www.lucsnetguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/gas_prices.jpg

[hardworkingstiff]

I could babble on and on :)

-Jon

I'm all eyes!

[bikeindy]

Yoy might want to check your numbers again. The US consumes over 20 million Barrels a day, not gallons.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

A barrel of oil is 42 gallons and about half of that is refined into gasoline 20 gallons per barrel. The US uses 400,000,000 gallons of gas everyday.

[ohm]

I drive a 24' E450 van filled with every known tool, meter, and lined w/ bins full of supplies. I rarely travel over 20 miles (usually 5 or less) and charge the same to travel as I do for on-site. This helps pay for the fact that it cost me $.50 per mile for fuel. Oh, I redirected my 401k into energy related stocks (make 3x in them as I did working).

[ItsHot]

Does anyone remember the Madmaxx movie(s) ???:-?

[Rampage_Rick]

Tip: Don't make this your daily driver

http://www3.telus.net/rampage/sig.jpg

I just put in a Driver Info Center out of an Escalade. I cringe when it sits at 10 MPG and go manic-depressive when it hits 5 MPG, and I'm currently running 94 octane. (Corvette engine tune) I was happier when I didn't know the millage I was getting every step of the way.

At least I get a monthly fuel allowance from work, but it's a fixed amount, so it's now only equal to 2.5 fillups. Used to be worth 4. I paid $5.45 /gal for what's in the tank right now.