Concrete encased electrode
- Thread starter Joemac
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Yes, if you have footing steel that qualifys as a grounding electrode in accordance with 250.52(A)(3) you must use it as part of the grounding electrode system.
Also a new addition to the 2008 NEC clarifys that if more than one CEE exist in a building it is permissable to only connect to one of them.
Chris
Also a new addition to the 2008 NEC clarifys that if more than one CEE exist in a building it is permissable to only connect to one of them.
Chris
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
About the only way around this is if the rebar is smaller than 1/2" or shorter than 20' when tied together. Both of which are not very likely in a new building.
wbalsam1
Senior Member
- Location
- Upper Jay, NY
2002 NEC = Where available
2005 NEC = Are present
2008 NEC = Are Present
So if you're still on the '02, you won't have to. Otherwise, you'll have to.:smile:
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
The electrical designer has their hands tied when it comes to what electrodes they can use to ground the service. If metal underground water pipe, building steel, and / or a concrete encased electrode is present at the structure and meet the requirements outline in 250.52, the designer MUST incorporate them into the grounding design.
Since it is possible the electrical designer will not be aware if these electrodes are going to be present at the time they are puttng the plans together, I advise they make a general note or specify these electrodes if and when present on any and every job they work on post 2005 NEC adoption.
Since it is possible the electrical designer will not be aware if these electrodes are going to be present at the time they are puttng the plans together, I advise they make a general note or specify these electrodes if and when present on any and every job they work on post 2005 NEC adoption.
250.52 (a)(3)
250.52 (a)(3)
The general concensus seems to be that if rebar is not installed per the approved set of plans,that it is not required to be part of the grounding electrode system. I thought that if rebar was not present, then a minimum 20' of #4 bare copper was to be installed as the c.e.e. On a new footing/foundation installation.
250.52 (a)(3)
The general concensus seems to be that if rebar is not installed per the approved set of plans,that it is not required to be part of the grounding electrode system. I thought that if rebar was not present, then a minimum 20' of #4 bare copper was to be installed as the c.e.e. On a new footing/foundation installation.
G0049
Senior Member
- Location
- Ludington, MI
Just to make sure we're all on the same page, the rule talks about rebar in the foundation, not the slab.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
No, if footing steel is not present you are not required to install 20 feet of #4 copper for a CEE, but you are permitted to do so.
Chris
that seems to be the word i'm getting,thanks
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
Unless there is a local amendment.
Some of the jurisdictions around here require a CCE. If there is no rebar, than a #4 cu must be installed.
glene77is
Senior Member
- Location
- Memphis, TN
Wbalsam,
It sounds like the NEC "Intent" was always present,
but was finally written in the '05 code.
I wrote that in the context of
"the fire hazard was always present,
and the engineering analysis has always there,
and now it has finally clarified further in NEC."
I do like this forum. :smile:
Some of you guys are so-o-o-o good at reading the NEC.
I read the handbook a lot, it is a "good read'.
I have a talent for reading the 'Intent'
and struggle to remember the Number of the Article,section.
:smile:
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Is a slab not a foundation? It also says footing or slab and many times a slab has footings. Also a regular slab generally does not have rebar but in my opinion you could use 20' #4 in a slab that has direct contact to earth.
Wikipedia said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Normally no, normally a slab 'floats' inside the foundation. In this case it would not qualify as a CEE.
In some areas of the country where frost is not a concern slabs are sometimes part of the foundation.
If the slab is part of the footing then IMO it could be a CEE, if the slab is not part of the footing IMO it could not be a CEE.
Here is a good picture of a 'stem wall' foundation that IMO would make the slab part of the foundation.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
So they have a local code requiring that you install a CEE even when it's not required by the NEC?
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
I have seen a few different versions of varied codes where a CEE is conditional. i.e. not required to destroy building in order to install said CEE, and some that require a CEE even if the building is not powered.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
In new construction, yes.
Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
If we are considering a slab, it would need to be thicker than 4" to encase the electrode by at least 2".
- Status