AFCI on circuit extension

[Pierre C Belarge]

AFCIs "SENSE" the signature of the arc. It can determine the difference between the good-arc as opposed to the bad-arc.

 

[al hildenbrand]

AFCIs "SENSE" the signature of the arc.

I imagine them with their little dowsing sticks held dutifully over the conductors. . .

:wink:

 

[iwire]

The lighting receptacle would become a new extention to the existing branch circuit.

- JWC

It sure would and every bit of the new part must comply with the code in effect today.

It is really that simple.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

So what manufacturer makes a AFCI recptacle that I will replace the existing receptacle where I tap into to power the new extention of the Branch Circuit conductors for the new Light in the bedroom.

I feel it is opening a can of worms if a new AFCI breaker replaces an existing standard breaker. I don't know how good the existing wiring is. Then I get a call from homeowner with a problem on the old part of circuit that was upgraded. Then it could become my problem on my time.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

So what manufacturer makes a AFCI recptacle that I will replace the existing receptacle where I tap into to power the new extention of the Branch Circuit conductors for the new Light in the bedroom.

I feel it is opening a can of worms if a new AFCI breaker replaces an existing standard breaker. I don't know how good the existing wiring is. Then I get a call from homeowner with a problem on the old part of circuit that was upgraded. Then it could become my problem on my time.

Code as per 90.21(B)Adequacy.
tells us the installation is to meet code but may not be convenient or adequate for good service.
For your situation, it would then become a design choice...do I install a new branch circuit to supply the receptacle or do I take a chance and see if the AFCI will work without tripping on the existing wiring.

Oh, the trials and tribulations of being an EC.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

Yea! that 90.21(B) can be a tough read, When in doubt rip the page out!

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Ripping pages out of the NEC may become a national pasttime. :grin:

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

So what manufacturer makes a AFCI recptacle that I will replace the existing receptacle where I tap into to power the new extention of the Branch Circuit conductors for the new Light in the bedroom.

I feel it is opening a can of worms if a new AFCI breaker replaces an existing standard breaker. I don't know how good the existing wiring is. Then I get a call from homeowner with a problem on the old part of circuit that was upgraded. Then it could become my problem on my time.

I know we have to think about the bottom line (which is why I'm a little thankful I take check instead of signing the checks) but what about the fact that if the AFCI "is opening a can of worms" then there is obvious a problem?

 

[M. D.]

I know we have to think about the bottom line (which is why I'm a little thankful I take check instead of signing the checks) but what about the fact that if the AFCI "is opening a can of worms" then there is obvious a problem?

Good point,.. but the thing of the thing is ,. that it is very hard to explain this to the home owner when the outlet they wanted goes from about $125 to $800 ,. cause you had to spend all day chasing grounded to grounding faults and inadvertent shared neutrals ,.. or do you just leave those and start ripping up the joint so you can add a new circuit and or sub panel ??

You could always explain this before hand ,.. that ,..

"it could cost as much as a 800 dollars to add that ..(sound in ear) click "

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Good point,.. but the thing of the thing is ,. that it is very hard to explain this to the home owner when the outlet they wanted goes from about $125 to $800 ,. cause you had to spend all day chasing grounded to grounding faults and inadvertent shared neutrals ,.. or do you just leave those and start ripping up the joint so you can add a new circuit and or sub panel ??

You could always explain this before hand ,.. that ,..

"it could cost as much as a 800 dollars to add that ..(sound in ear) click "

The answer to this is EQUAL ENFORCEMENT.

If all code enforcers and electrical installers were/are on the same page, the issue of explaining to the customer what is needed to be installed would diminish quite a bit.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

The answer to this is EQUAL ENFORCEMENT.

If all code enforcers and electrical installers were/are on the same page, the issue of explaining to the customer what is needed to be installed would diminish quite a bit.

That's a great point Pierre. I had thought that a couple of times during this thread.

Also I would hope that if it is CLEARLY explain the the HO what the AFCI purpose is and that IF there is a problem not fixing could lead to a fire...


Yeah easy to say I know... There's no doubt it is tough

 

[M. D.]

Well,.. I've got to tell you I have H.O. begging me not to pull permits all the time .. when rules are considered silly,. enforcement becomes whimsical and both undermine the purpose of the rule ,.. is there a limit to the amount of regulation the market will bare?? I think there is, ..in my little piece of the world there are more and more folks who regard many of the NEC rules as silly..
How many states have amended 210.12??