Single Non-motor-Operated Appliance an Electric Range?

[smallfish]

A damaged three-pole, three-wire range plug was replaced with the same type of range plug. The range plug branch circuit was left untouched, it being the original sheathed cable with three #8 awg copper insulated conductors. A new service panel was installed. A 50 amp, 2pole circuit breaker was installed to protect this range branch circuit.
Could code rule 422.11 (E) (3) be interpreted to allow the use of this 50 amp breaker on a 40 amp wire?

 

[daleuger]

It just mentions not going above what the appliance is rated for and really says nothing about the wire, eh? That's a good question.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

422.11(E) (3) is talking about OCPD rating in comparision to he appliance current rating. I does not allow you to use a 40a wire on a 50a circuit.

You are going to have to put a 40a breaker back in if you are using 8awg SE or NM cable

 

[claytazdaisy]

#8 copper is good for 45amps not 50amps. thats what it says says in the tables for ampacities of wire. i didnt see any exceptions

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

#8 copper is good for 45amps not 50amps. thats what it says says in the tables for ampacities of wire. i didnt see any exceptions

Where are you looking?

He said sheathed cable which I took to mean NM or SE which uses the 60 degree ampacity in table 310.16 40 amps

 

[raider1]

A damaged three-pole, three-wire range plug was replaced with the same type of range plug. The range plug branch circuit was left untouched, it being the original sheathed cable with three #8 awg copper insulated conductors. A new service panel was installed. A 50 amp, 2pole circuit breaker was installed to protect this range branch circuit.
Could code rule 422.11 (E) (3) be interpreted to allow the use of this 50 amp breaker on a 40 amp wire?

I think that if you meet the requirements of 422.11(E)(3) then yes you could.

The rating of the range could not exceed the ampacity of the wire. But the overcurrent protective device could be sized at 150% of the rating of the range.

Chris

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I think that if you meet the requirements of 422.11(E)(3) then yes you could.

The rating of the range could not exceed the ampacity of the wire. But the overcurrent protective device could be sized at 150% of the rating of the range.

Chris

Yeah the OCPD can be rated at 150% but that doesn't allow you to use what ever conductors you want..... could he use 10s? how about 12s? 14s?

Help me understand this. You can only protect the conductors at the next higher OCPD IF the ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with a standard breaker. The conductors are rated at 40a and that is a standard size............

240.4(B) (2) The ampacity of the conductors does not correspond

with the standard ampere rating of a fuse or a circuit
breaker without overload trip adjustments above its rating
(but that shall be permitted to have other trip or​

rating adjustments).

 

[iwire]

IMO 422.11(E) does not modify the general requirements in Article 240.

422 is only concerned with protecting the appliance, we still have to follow 240 in order to protect the conductors.

Edit; Oh yeah, 40 amp breaker or replace the conductors.

 

[raider1]

IMO 422.11(E) does not modify the general requirements in Article 240.

422 is only concerned with protecting the appliance, we still have to follow 240 in order to protect the conductors.

Edit; Oh yeah, 40 amp breaker or replace the conductors.

I see my error, when I looked at 240.4(G) I saw Part II of Article 422 for specific conductor protection. What I failed to pay close attention too was that that applys to motor-operated appliance circuit conductors.

My bad.

Chris

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Oh I see.... 5 total comments from 3 diffrent posters and it's no dice... but iwire throws a quickie comment out there and it's

"HOLD THE PRESSES I SEE THE LIGHT!!!!"



I'm kidding of course.

 

[raider1]

Oh I see.... 5 total comments from 3 diffrent posters and it's no dice... but iwire throws a quickie comment out there and it's

"HOLD THE PRESSES I SEE THE LIGHT!!!!"



I'm kidding of course.

Me and Bob don't always agree, but I respect his and everyone's views so when I looked at the responses to this thread I just picked his comment to quote.

The general rule for overcurrent protection of conductors is to protect the wire at it's ampacity or below with an exception for the next sized overcurrent device if you meet certain provisions. With that said there are specific conductor protection rules listed in Table 240.4(G). Part II of Article 422 is on that list, my problem was that I didn't read closely that that section only applies to motor operated appliances.

Chris

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Me and Bob don't always agree, but I respect his and everyone's views so when I looked at the responses to this thread I just picked his comment to quote.

The general rule for overcurrent protection of conductors is to protect the wire at it's ampacity or below with an exception for the next sized overcurrent device if you meet certain provisions. With that said there are specific conductor protection rules listed in Table 240.4(G). Part II of Article 422 is on that list, my problem was that I didn't read closely that that section only applies to motor operated appliances.

Chris

I really was just dickin around Chris. I respect yours and most opinions on this great forum...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sorry but I have to state that this range is not a 3 pole range but a SP range with 3 terminal receptacle.

Also be careful, if you made the original panel a sub panel then, IMO, the 3 wire to the range is no longer code compliant.