Water and Gas Bonding

[claytazdaisy]

i am currently remodeling my home. i upgraded my service from 125amps to 200amps. There was never any bonding. just the concrete encased uffer.

i am adding a water bond and a gas bond. i have read in article 250. but am not sure in the interpratation. i know that i need a #4 for the water and a #6 for the gas.

1st question. Can i loop the 2 bonds. i have been told that i can use #4 to do this. did not find it in the code

2nd question. how is "secure" interpretated in the code. my interpretation is that i need to strap it up every two feet. i left out that it is runnin on the outside. i have a spool of #4 THHN. what i have been suggested to do by a few people is to run the wire underground. will an inspecter pass that. i havnt been able to find any codes that say that i cant. just that #4 and up need to be secure

 

[TOOL_5150]

#4 does not need to be protected from damage, which is nice.

in california,, we run a #4 to the water, the ground rod, and then tie hot, cold, and gas together at the water heater.

~Matt

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

]#4 does not need to be protected from damage[/SIZE], which is nice.

in california,, we run a #4 to the water, the ground rod, and then tie hot, cold, and gas together at the water heater.

~Matt

It is not that 4 AWG is not required to be protected from damage, all conductors regardless of the size are required to be protected from damage.
If the 4 AWG is not subject to physical damage, it can be installed without a raceway.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

i am currently remodeling my home. i upgraded my service from 125amps to 200amps. There was never any bonding. just the concrete encased uffer.

i am adding a water bond and a gas bond. i have read in article 250. but am not sure in the interpratation. i know that i need a #4 for the water and a #6 for the gas.

1st question. Can i loop the 2 bonds. i have been told that i can use #4 to do this. did not find it in the code

2nd question. how is "secure" interpretated in the code. my interpretation is that i need to strap it up every two feet. i left out that it is runnin on the outside. i have a spool of #4 THHN. what i have been suggested to do by a few people is to run the wire underground. will an inspecter pass that. i havnt been able to find any codes that say that i cant. just that #4 and up need to be secure

1st question:
The gas generally is not required to be bonded to the grounding electrode system.
See 250.104(B).


2nd question:
There is no specific measurement provided by the NEC in regards to supporting the GEC. It is to be supported so as not to create a hazard to itself. 250.64(B)
Where installed below grade, there is no language as to how deep it is required to be installed.

 

[TOOL_5150]

It is not that 4 AWG is not required to be protected from damage, all conductors regardless of the size are required to be protected from damage.
If the 4 AWG is not subject to physical damage, it can be installed without a raceway.

I was eating and typing with 1 hand... i figured yall would know what I mean.

~Matt

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Matt
You may want to get one of the "keyboard dusters". :grin:

 

[TOOL_5150]

Matt
You may want to get one of the "keyboard dusters". :grin:

My keyboard is fine... though it is missing the F10 key for some strange reason.:-?

~Matt

 

[ibew441dc]

1st question:
The gas generally is not required to be bonded to the grounding electrode system.
See 250.104(B).

To build on what Pierre's statement, it is important that you clearly understand 250.104(B)

claytazdaisy,My question to you is....How did you come up with a number 6awg for the gas piping?
Although every installation is different they all share something in common in regards to gas bonding. A circuit is either connected to the gas or its not. That being said read the following and see if it changes your conclusion?

250.104 Bonding of Piping Systems and Exposed Structural
Steel.
(B) Other Metal Piping.
Where installed in or attached to
a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including
gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be
bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded
conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor
where of sufficient size, or the one or more grounding electrodes
used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance
with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is
likely to energize the piping system(s). The equipment
grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize
the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means.
The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be
accessible.

 

[claytazdaisy]

i have gas water heater. gas/electric range. gas/electric a/c.

either way the gas is getting #4. i have 500ft spool that ive had lying around.

so it can go under ground.
what about looping the gas with water on 1 #4

 

[ibew441dc]

i have gas water heater. gas/electric range. gas/electric a/c.

either way the gas is getting #4. i have 500ft spool that ive had lying around.

so it can go under ground.
what about looping the gas with water on 1 #4

I have mixed feelings about taking an auxiliary conductor to a gas pipe.
If you carefully consider the fact that a gas pipe shall not be used as a grounding electrode, and 250.104(B) says that where gas pipe it is likely to be energized it must be bonded via the EGC ran with the circuit that is likely to energize it....one could argue that bonding it would violate 250.104(B) unless it had a circuit that was likely to energize it. Now merely suggesting this will stir up emotion in some and I know others will consider this.

IMO I would make sure the gas/electric range and gas/electric a.c. is properly bonded with an appropriately sized EGC and be done.

As far as the conductor going underground the answer is yes.

 

[electricmanscott]

i have gas water heater. gas/electric range. gas/electric a/c.

either way the gas is getting #4. i have 500ft spool that ive had lying around.

Just as long as you understand this is NOT required. :smile:

 

[iwire]

If you carefully consider the fact that a gas pipe shall not be used as a grounding electrode, and 250.104(B) says that where gas pipe it is likely to be energized it must be bonded via the EGC ran with the circuit that is likely to energize it....one could argue that bonding it would violate 250.104(B) unless it had a circuit that was likely to energize it.

I have carefully considered this:roll: and while I would not waste my time running the 4 AWG to the gas line doing so is not in anyway an NEC violation.

 

[ibew441dc]

I have carefully considered this:roll: and while I would not waste my time running the 4 AWG to the gas line doing so is not in anyway an NEC violation.

I know, I know, :roll::smile: I don't think it is a violation either, I am merely trying to point out that the NEC doesn't really want you taking anything to the GAS PIPE unless it is absolutely necessary for fault current.