680.22(A) Receptacles

[Smart $]

That may be the best argument yet, 400.7(A)(6) or (8) specifically allows cord to be used but 400.7(B) requires those cords to be energized from a receptacle.

Yet, what if 400.7(A)(7) "Prevention of the transmission of noise and vibration" is also a condition???

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

That may be the best argument yet, 400.7(A)(6) or (8) specifically allows cord to be used but 400.7(B) requires those cords to be energized from a receptacle.

Could we not call this a pendant and use 400.7(A)(1)? Such as

210.50 General. ​

​

​

​

​

Receptacle outlets shall be installed as
specified in 210.52 through 210.63.​

(A) Cord Pendants.​

​

​

A cord connector that is supplied by a
permanently connected cord pendant shall be considered a​

receptacle outlet.

 

[iwire]

Yet, what if 400.7(A)(7) "Prevention of the transmission of noise and vibration" is also a condition???

Yeah I noticed that and wanted to use it to prove my point but I really figured that would be stretching it for the installation pictured. I can't honestly say I believe they used that cord to stop the transmission of noise when the pump itself looks hard mounted and hard piped.

 

[iwire]

Could we not call this a pendant and use 400.7(A)(1)?

Is it a 'pendent' when it comes out the side of a box on the floor?

I really do not think it is so I did not bring the pendent issue up.

In my mind a pendent hangs from above.

Main Entry: pen?dent
Variant(s): or pen?dant \ˈpen-dənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English pendaunt
Date: 14th century

1 : jutting or leaning over : overhanging <a pendent cliff>

2 : supported from above : suspended <icicles pendent from the eaves>

3 : remaining undetermined : pending

 

[LarryFine]

Is it a 'pendent' when it comes out the side of a box on the floor?

I really do not think it is so I did not bring the pendent issue up.

In my mind a pendent hangs from above.

It must be independent then.

 

[vinster888]

whats wrong with a piece of LFNC, a couple connectors, and a 2 pole switch?

 

[Smart $]

Yeah I noticed that and wanted to use it to prove my point but I really figured that would be stretching it for the installation pictured. I can't honestly say I believe they used that cord to stop the transmission of noise when the pump itself looks hard mounted and hard piped.

So hardwiring the pump motor (or any motor for that matter) with a "rigid" conduit would be acceptable???

I'd say the wiring of the pump motor with cord was, in part, to mitigate vibration. What I was asking is if the inclusion of this reason alleviated the 400.7(B) requirement to plug into a receptacle.

 

[iwire]

So hardwiring the pump motor (or any motor for that matter) with a "rigid" conduit would be acceptable???

Strangely yes.

But there are hard wiring methods that are flexible like LFMC.

I'd say the wiring of the pump motor with cord was, in part, to mitigate vibration.

To each their own, IMO the electrician did not use cord to stop vibration, they used cord because it is easy. :smile:

What I was asking is if the inclusion of this reason alleviated the 400.7(B) requirement to plug into a receptacle.

I don't know the answer to that question, the whole section seems to have evolved over many code sections, IMO both 400.7 and 400.8 could stand for 'do over'. :smile:

 

[Davis9]

Where in 680 21 does it state that 400 type methods are acceptable for Pool Motor Branch circuit wiring?

It is moot since it does not specifically mention this as an option. For the pump side 3' or less and terminating in an attachment type grounding plug yes, the branch circuit side, no.

Tom:-?

 

[Smart $]

Strangely yes.

But there are hard wiring methods that are flexible like LFMC.

I realize "rigid" methods are acceptable by code. Common practice says otherwise...

To each their own, IMO the electrician did not use cord to stop vibration, they used cord because it is easy. :smile:

Perhaps... but that's not an available option for either uses permitted or not :grin:

Addendum: Regarding 400.8 Uses Not Permitted, a motor is not a structure per NEC, nor is a short transition from a fixed wiring method thereto a substitute for such... IMO.

I don't know the answer to that question, the whole section seems to have evolved over many code sections, IMO both 400.7 and 400.8 could stand for 'do over'. :smile:

I'd say!

Grammatically, the use of the word and, instead of or, in 400.7(B) means all three of the mentioned criteria, i.e. 400.7(A)(3, 6, and 8), must be a condition of usage in order for the receptacle requirement to be valid... :grin:

 

[iwire]

a motor is not a structure per NEC,

As far as I know motors are built or constructed, they do not grow from motor seeds. That makes them structures.

 

[kbsparky]

I was told by an inspector that T-11 boxes could not be used for a pool because of corrosion where you bolt through the box to attach the #8 to GEC using nut and bolt. In the pics I see (2) T-11 boxes being used

Why not use PVC "FS" boxes? No corrosion with those .... :roll:

 

[Smart $]

As far as I know motors are built or constructed, they do not grow from motor seeds. That makes them structures.

So you are saying structure, appliance, and utilization equipment are all interchangeable concepts under the NEC??? :grin: