new 200a home service

[jgreen79]

Newbie here, Hi all.
We have a mobile home, with a 200amp main and the meter can will set approx. 200' from the power company's pole.New construction. They're allowing us to go underground from their pole. I've got enough 2" pvc, fittings, the meter can and panel. My question is will 4/0 alum. be adequate? at 200'...??? Or do we need 250 kcmil? haven't done any demand calc. On top of this question, she is planning on adding a shop later on.....so what would be best solution for this?
Thanks ahead!

 

[jgreen79]

Newbie here, Hi all.
We have a mobile home, with a 200amp main and the meter can will set approx. 200' from the power company's pole.New construction. They're allowing us to go underground from their pole. I've got enough 2" pvc, fittings, the meter can and panel. My question is will 4/0 alum. be adequate? at 200'...??? Or do we need 250 kcmil? haven't done any demand calc. On top of this question, she is planning on adding a shop later on.....so what would be best solution for this?
Thanks ahead!

can we add a 100 amp breaker in the 200 amp panel and run service to the shop later on. The shop I'm sure could get away with 60 amps or less(no major tools) and I highly doubt the trailer would ever pull close to 200amps.

If I'm not mistaken VD on a 120/240v service 200 feet in length(400') with 4/0 aluminum will give a 6.8 volt drop, or a loss of 2.8% which is under the typical 3%. Am I right or way off?

 

[StreamlineGT]

In my area, the poco sizes and pulls that wire. If it were me, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I have 4/0 feeding my 400 amp at 150ft.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You really need to know what the load is to do a VD calculation. If you want a full 200 amp capacity at 200 feet then you need 250kcm alum.

Try this online vd calculator

 

[jgreen79]

4/0 alum. on 400 amp WOW! Yes I'm trying to get her(mother by the way) to find out if POCO will at least supply the wire, even if we have to pull it.

This is a typical mobile home, a year old with a 200 amp main inside, it's all electric.
She's a few states away, so it's hard to do much without her doing it, or having the "luvie duvie jack of all trades master of none" trying to screw something up.
I'm in electrical, but commercial, never really touched residential. Never really done a load calc. But I don't know what these appliances, etc. are rated at?
Just a typical heat/ac ;stove, WH, and general outlets, etc.

 

[benaround]

jgreen,

Don't forget from the outside disconnect ( not mounted on the mobile home ) to the

panel in the MH you need 4 insulated conductors, GEC at disconnect outside.

 

[jgreen79]

jgreen,

Don't forget from the outside disconnect ( not mounted on the mobile home ) to the

panel in the MH you need 4 insulated conductors, GEC at disconnect outside.

yes, thank you. I had originally hoped we'd go with 4/0 XHHW x 3 from POCO to meter, #4 solid/bare grounding to 8' rod; 3-4/0 XHHW and #4 grounding to MH panel.
There are actually 2 POCO's in this area, the one we originally thought we'd be able to obtain, we can't, so on with the other. One REQUIRES a unistrust assembly, other asks for WOOD or other suitable material, LOL. My #4 bare will bond to the "neutral"(ground) bar on the load size of meter can/panel enclosure.

 

[jgreen79]

You really need to know what the load is to do a VD calculation. If you want a full 200 amp capacity at 200 feet then you need 250kcm alum.

Try this online vd calculator

Even if I didn't want a 200 amp full capacity, wouldn't I have to pull the wire large enough for such unless I swap out the breaker? Don't wanna have 200 MB on wire rated for much less....right? wrong? I understand swapping the breaker would be much cheaper, just asking to clarify. So the biggest question is my load calc............working on it.

 

[jgreen79]

well she's given me the breaker sizes, but unable to give me the actual rated power, watts/va. I guess you could do an extra calculation with breaker sizes and come up with a figure only to find it on the high side, eh?

 

[DavisIMI]

I maxed every thing out on my software and came up with 103 amps for a older lady in a mobile home. That's 24,690.50 va, 120/240v, 1w/g, 200' length one way, comes out at 102.88 amps. Wire size 2/0. But hey if you want to pull 4/0 go for it, but 250's are out of the question.

P.S. This was calculated on a 16x80 mobile home. With all the modern luxuries.:wink:

 

[jgreen79]

I maxed every thing out on my software and came up with 103 amps for a older lady in a mobile home. That's 24,690.50 va, 120/240v, 1w/g, 200' length one way, comes out at 102.88 amps. Wire size 2/0. But hey if you want to pull 4/0 go for it, but 250's are out of the question.

P.S. This was calculated on a 16x80 mobile home. With all the modern luxuries.:wink:

copper? or aluminum? we were figuring 2/0 copper and 4/0 alum. Thanks much!!

I'm thinking AND HOPING at a MAX, 4/0 aluminum to 200amp Nema 3 meter can/panel enclosure, with 4/0 alum. going to trailer's 200 amp MB in interior panel, and a 100 breaker for the service to a panel in the future shop. Can we do this? As far as the shop, we're talking general lighting, and receps, no big air compressor or nothing, really don't see anything needing over a 20amp breaker, but it'd be nice to have 100amps if available and being that I have a 200amp 480/277 3phase 42 circuit panel she can HAVE.

 

[jgreen79]

hAVING the heater, stove and dryer, dishwasher going at the same time as well as other appliances is probably unlikely but possible, even with such, I agree with you that we'll be adequate, just wanted to ask the experts!

 

[peter d]

In my area, the poco sizes and pulls that wire. If it were me, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I have 4/0 feeding my 400 amp at 150ft.

Exactly right...the poco knows exactly what they are doing and they use historical load data and not the NEC to size their conductors and equipment. CL&P certainly makes it simple. Just set the meter can and run the u/g conduit and they take care of the rest.

 

[jgreen79]

Exactly right...the poco knows exactly what they are doing and they use historical load data and not the NEC to size their conductors and equipment. CL&P certainly makes it simple. Just set the meter can and run the u/g conduit and they take care of the rest.

I'll run the 2" hopefully(should be) big enough for whatever they pull....what about pulling off that 200 amp, to feed a 60 or 100 amp panel for shop? doable?

 

[DavisIMI]

Copper, alway copper.

 

[DavisIMI]

Here in Tn,well at least the county where I live, the POCO will pull and supply wire up to 250' for houses only, mobile homes are own their own, they don't supply nothing underground only overhead sec.

 

[benaround]

jgreen,

have you read thru Article 550, Mobile Homes, Manafactured Homes, and Mobile Home Parks ?

If not you really should, 550.32(A) and (B) may open your eyes to the mobile home thing

or is it a manafactured home that you are really dealing with ? It makes a big difference.

You say you don't do resi. that much and you could get in trouble here.

 

[hurk27]

I would check what kind of loads your dealing with, most Mobile homes I have seen with a 200 amp panel will have all electric heating, hot water, and such. for a private property type install, with an out building, I set a 320 meter with double lugs, from one side of the meter lugs I hit a disco outside the Mobile home with a 3 wire then, 4 wire insulated grounding conductor from the disco in to the Mobile home panel, from the other side of the meter lugs I run to the out building panel with a main breaker panel. since the out building needs means of disconnect and GE system anyways this way you only need 3 conductors to it, and you treat it just like a service. just remember you need the disco to be within 30'
550 of the NEC or 24 CFR 3280.800 of the HUD codes which can be found HERE will be the places to look

By StreamlineGT: I have 4/0 feeding my 400 amp at 150ft

I don't think that would pass, as 500 kcmil would bee the smallest allowed for 400 amp dwelling? or are you talking the POCO side of the meter?:grin: POCO around here will drop 250 kcmil to the meter for a 400 amp service

 

[hurk27]

jgreen,

have you read thru Article 550, Mobile Homes, Manafactured Homes, and Mobile Home Parks ?

If not you really should, 550.32(A) and (B) may open your eyes to the mobile home thing

or is it a manafactured home that you are really dealing with ? It makes a big difference.

You say you don't do resi. that much and you could get in trouble here.

Any mobile Home made after June 16 1986, is in fact a manufactured home, in the eyes of HUD

I think you thinking Modular homes which HUD doesnt regulate, local codes do.

? 3280.7 Excluded structures.
Certain structures may be excluded from these Standards as modular homes under 24 CFR 3282.12.

 

[jgreen79]

I would check what kind of loads your dealing with, most Mobile homes I have seen with a 200 amp panel will have all electric heating, hot water, and such. for a private property type install, with an out building, I set a 320 meter with double lugs, from one side of the meter lugs I hit a disco outside the Mobile home with a 3 wire then, 4 wire insulated grounding conductor from the disco in to the Mobile home panel, from the other side of the meter lugs I run to the out building panel with a main breaker panel. since the out building needs means of disconnect and GE system anyways this way you only need 3 conductors to it, and you treat it just like a service. just remember you need the disco to be within 30'
550 of the NEC or 24 CFR 3280.800 of the HUD codes which can be found HERE will be the places to look





I don't think that would pass, as 500 kcmil would bee the smallest allowed for 400 amp dwelling? or are you talking the POCO side of the meter?:grin: POCO around here will drop 250 kcmil to the meter for a 400 amp service

This mobile home is a year old, all electric, heat/a/c, dryer, stove etc. Haven't seen the trailer itself, but it has a 200amp panel. Supplying 200amps would be sufficient for the home itself, so you are saying, put in a 320 meter loop for future provisions for the shop? Are you calling the shop the "out building"? I'm thinking of just pulling off a few 20 amp circuits for the shop later on if need be...she only needs general purpose and maybe a few lights. I'm trying to save her from spending too much, as after talking with POCO, seems we need to supply the service feeder.
Using a 250 feeder at 200 feet and 320amp load, gives us a vd of 3.8% which is a tad high, eh?
Bare with me guys, and thanks a ton for the help.
I'm thinking :
200 amp:
250 aluminum
2/0 copper
320 amp:
4/0 copper
Granted copper is a better conductor, also looking at cost here, if we have to supply feeder.
I'm not knocking you, I'm just having a hard time thinking she'll need a full 320 amp feeder load.
If we only supply a 200 amp feed via a Main Breaker in the panelbox outside, can I not add a 60 amp breaker in same panel to a subpanel in shop?
Would that overload the exterior panel? if both subpanels(one in home and one in shop) were to pull close to full load?