Terminating Voice and Data

[big john]

Our plant telephone system is just a POTS run with bell wire that goes back to punchdown blocks before going into the network interface. I've been asked to "redo" this, unfortunately, what I know about telecom I can write on a matchbook. I'm hoping to get some feedback on my plan.

I am simply going to pull two cat-5e homeruns to every jack. One for voice, one for data. The data I am going to land at a patch panel. The voice, I guess I'd just hook directly to the existing punchdown blocks. How is that usually done?

Also, should I make all my jacks RJ-45. I know they can accommodate an RJ-11 phone plug, but maybe that's not a good idea....

Any suggestions? Thanks.

-John

 

[MAK]

I think on the voice you have to make sure they are 110 blocks and not 66. I have heard that it won't work on a 66 block.

 

[egnlsn]

Voice has been punched down on 66 blocks for decades. No reason that it would all of a sudden not work.

I would suggest using RJ-45 jacks for phone as well data. Just be sure to terminate the voice jacks 568A and the data jacks 568B. 568B is what's used in the VAST majority of data networks, and 568A for the voice will put pair 2 of the cable on the same pins as line 2 on phones.

Also suggest using different colored jacks for voice and data, such as white for phone and blue for data.

 

[wireguru]

I wouldnt use RJ45 for the voice jacks -use RJ11/12. When you insert an RJ11 plug into an RJ45 jack, the plug bends pins 1,8 and can damage them. Leave slack in the box so each cable can be reterminated a couple times. When punching the voice cables down, punch down all 4 pairs. Replace the 66 blocks, the contacts oxidize as they age. Is there a phone system or PBX? Or are you just connecting these jacks to incoming phone lines?

 

[hbiss]

I think on the voice you have to make sure they are 110 blocks and not 66. I have heard that it won't work on a 66 block.

That's the funnyest thing I have heard in a long time.

I agree with not using an 8 position/8 pin jack (erroneously called an RJ-45) for voice. Not only is there a problem with bent pins and the plug not fitting properly, if a computer is plugged into a voice jack by mistake the ring voltage will destroy the NIC. So do it right and use a 6 position/ 4 or 6 pin jack (RJ-11) for voice and all these problems are eliminated.

And yes, use 66 blocks and punch down all 4 pairs according to the color code.

-Hal

 

[JFletcher]

Hal didn't go off on the thought of using cat5e for voice?! I'm shocked! :wink:

Our plant telephone system is just a POTS run with bell wire that goes back to punchdown blocks before going into the network interface. I've been asked to "redo" this, unfortunately, what I know about telecom I can write on a matchbook. I'm hoping to get some feedback on my plan.

I am simply going to pull two cat-5e homeruns to every jack. One for voice, one for data. The data I am going to land at a patch panel. The voice, I guess I'd just hook directly to the existing punchdown blocks. How is that usually done?

Also, should I make all my jacks RJ-45. I know they can accommodate an RJ-11 phone plug, but maybe that's not a good idea....

Any suggestions? Thanks.

-John

All home runs is excellent.

Some questions first:

What kind of plant is this?

Does every jack need voice and data? What about video?

How many drops do you have?

What is the longest pull you have from jack to patch panel?

What are the IT needs of your plant?

As for suggestions:

~ Read all of chapter 8 of the NEC.
~ Use one color of cable for voice (white or grey), and another for data (blue is good).
~ Leave plenty of cable in the box (at least 12", preferably 16-18").
~ Leave plenty of cable in the phone room to terminate. Having to use splices = fail, especially with data.
~ Use the correct cable types, and good, quality cable.
~ Use the correct tools and methods to strip and terminate all of your cables.
~ For just voice and data at the jack end, I would use 8p8c keystones (incorrectly called RJ45) for data, wired 568B, and use 6p6c keystones for telephone, wired according to USOC standards, with at least the minimum number of pairs required by the phone system. Stay away from the junk wallplates that have prewired terminations for data and telephone (seen at Big Box stores).
~ Do not overpull (25lbs max pulling force), kink, or sharply bend any catx cable. It sounds like your plant has raceways to each box, which would be good. Any free-run cable should be supported at no more than 5' intervals.
~ Make sure you have enough receptacles (dedicated, preferably) to provide power to all of the equipment in the phone/data room.

At some point you will probably need to call in telephone and IT professionals to complete your systems to be fully functional.

 

[hbiss]

Hal didn't go off on the thought of using cat5e for voice?! I'm shocked!

That's because I have a headache from banging my head against the wall.

-Hal

 

[iwire]

Hal didn't go off on the thought of using cat5e for voice?! I'm shocked!

That's because I have a headache from banging my head against the wall.

-Hal

:grin:


I am glad you have a sense of humor.

 

[big john]

Thanks for the replies so far. For the record, this is in a power plant, but it's a very plain-jane installation: Five or six drops, non-critical applications, just to be used when guys need to get online with their laptops. No need for video.

I know there's no need to put voice on cat-5. My thinking was just to make the system more flexible; maybe have two data drops instead of one voice and one data.

I'll go with RJ-11s at my drops for voice.

We do have about thirty different phone lines coming into this place, even though only a couple are currently being used. Would it make sense to eliminate the punchdown blocks and put in a patch panel for the voice? Does such an animal even exist?

Thanks.

-John

 

[electricalperson]

when i punch down a 66 block i like to punch the feed from the street first on the left, if its a 25 pair or something just go down the left side but usually i do it in a house and only use a couple pairs.

they make little metal clips that connect the left and right side but i dont use those i just loop a long piece of cross connect wire from the feed all the way through the block on the second clip from the left to feed all the other cat5e's

it comes out looking cool when its all done

 

[cschmid]

I would use cat 5E for both phone and data just because the wave of the future is VOIP and you will not have to do the job twice. I would also agree no to 8 pin (RJ45) jacks for phone use 6 pin. I also use colored jacks for the internet normally orange and white or grey is phone. this way you will not have as many service calls for funny little reasons, like Oh I did not know that. use 66 blocks and if old they are cheap but you could clean them but at about the same cost as new. I would use patch panels if your phone is VOIP or is going to VOIP.

 

[hbiss]

I would use cat 5E for both phone and data just because the wave of the future is VOIP and you will not have to do the job twice.

But what you DON'T know is that VoIP phones can be used just fine with CAT3. There is no great speed or bandwith so it's not necessary to use CAT5 and certainly not 6. It's in most manufacturer's specs if anybody actually read them.

-Hal

 

[cschmid]

I would use cat 5E for both phone and data just because the wave of the future is VOIP and you will not have to do the job twice.

But what you DON'T know is that VoIP phones can be used just fine with CAT3. There is no great speed or bandwith so it's not necessary to use CAT5 and certainly not 6. It's in most manufacturer's specs if anybody actually read them.

-Hal

ah very true but you can use more then phone with VOIP. in fact if you want to be thrifty you and use the 2 pair needed for Internet and one of the other pair for the phone and have a spare with just one cat 5E so it is personal call on how to do it.

 

[hbiss]

Now you are really reaching...

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

in fact if you want to be thrifty you and use the 2 pair needed for Internet and one of the other pair for the phone and have a spare with just one cat 5E so it is personal call on how to do it.

I wouldn't risk the crosstalk and possible data performance reduction.

 

[JFletcher]

if you want to be thrifty you and use the 2 pair needed for Internet and one of the other pair for the phone and have a spare with just one cat 5E so it is personal call on how to do it.

That method is an absolute last resort when there are no other options available. Sharing POTS and data on one cat5e cable... ugh. Way worse than splices. Even on a 6 drop project, the cost of the splitters, associated rigged cabling and extra labor would far exceed the cost of another roll of cat5e cable. Not to mention it would look hideous, be a non-compliant installation, uncertifiable, and leave no room for growth.

Would it work? Probably. Would it be right? No.

 

[FlyFish]

I have terminated thousands of Cat5e cables and always use high quality Cat5e jacks for both voice and data. I have never had pins ruined by plugging in a voice cord into these jacks. Cheap Chinese jacks or Chinese counterfeit jacks may have this problem. US companies recognized years ago that people would accidently plug telephone cords into data jacks and they changed the design. Have any of you who say this damages the jacks actually seen this? I just wired up two jacks and plugged a RJ-11 into each of them 50 times which resulted in no damage.

 

[cschmid]

LMAO you do know I do not do that..if you remember correctly I suggested to use 2 cat 5e.

 

[jeffcmag]

REerroneously called an RJ-45)

REerroneously called an RJ-45)

I think on the voice you have to make sure they are 110 blocks and not 66. I have heard that it won't work on a 66 block.

That's the funnyest thing I have heard in a long time.

I agree with not using an 8 position/8 pin jack (erroneously called an RJ-45) for voice. Not only is there a problem with bent pins and the plug not fitting properly, if a computer is plugged into a voice jack by mistake the ring voltage will destroy the NIC. So do it right and use a 6 position/ 4 or 6 pin jack (RJ-11) for voice and all these problems are eliminated.

And yes, use 66 blocks and punch down all 4 pairs according to the color code.

-Hal

RJ stands for Registered Jack which were introduced by the Bell System in the 1970s under a 1976 FCC order ending the use of protective couplers. They replaced earlier, bulkier connectors. The Bell System issued specifications for the modular connectors and their wiring as Universal Service Ordering Codes (USOC), which were the only standard at the time.

The true RJ45(S) is an extremely uncommon registered jack, but the name "RJ45" is also used quite commonly to refer to any 8P8C modular connector.

Many of the basic names have suffixes that indicate subtypes:

* C: flush-mount or surface mount
* W: wall-mount
* S: single-line
* M: multi-line
* X: complex jack
Common types

* RJ11C/RJ11W: 6P2C, for one telephone line (6P4C with power on second pair)
* RJ14C/RJ14W: 6P4C, for two telephone lines (6P6C with power on third pair)
* RJ25C/RJ25W: 6P6C, for three telephone lines

[edit] Uncommon types

* RJ2MB: 50-pin miniature ribbon connector, 2-12 telephone lines with make-busy
* RJ12C/RJ12W: 6P6C, for one telephone line ahead of the key system
* RJ13C/RJ13W: 6P4C, for one telephone line behind the key system
* RJ15C: 3-pin weatherproof, for one telephone line
* RJ18C/RJ18W : 6P6C, for one telephone line with make-busy arrangement
* RJ21X: 50-pin miniature ribbon connector, for up to 25 lines
* RJ26X: 50-pin miniature ribbon connector, for multiple data lines, universal
* RJ27X: 50-pin miniature ribbon connector, for multiple data lines, programmed
* RJ31X: 8P8C (although usually only 4C are used), Often incorrectly stated as allowing alarm (fire and intrusion) equipment to seize a phone line, the jack is actually used to disconnect the equipment from the phone line while allowing the phone circuit to continue to the site phones.
* RJ38X: 8P8C, similar to RJ31X, with continuity circuit (this is the one that should be used for fire and security applications because of the continuity pair. If the plug is removed from the jack a short is created between pins 1 and 8 therefore if correctly wired will trip a panic or fire alarm.)
* RJ41S: 8P8C keyed, for one data line, universal
* RJ45S: 8P2C + keyed, for one data line with programming resistor
* RJ48S: 8P8C, for four-wire data line (DDS)
* RJ48C: 8P8C, for four-wire data line (DSX-1)
* RJ48X: 8P8C with shorting bar, for four-wire data line (DS1)
* RJ49C: 8P8C, for ISDN BRI via NT1
* RJ61X: 8P8C, for four telephone lines
* RJ71C: 12 line series connection using 50 pin connector (with bridging adapter) ahead of customer equipment. Mostly used for call sequencer equipment.

The keystone jack which you are referring to is the design of the housing that the RJ-jack is contained in.

 

[LarryFine]

* RJ11C/RJ11W: 6P2C, for one telephone line (6P4C with power on second pair)
* RJ14C/RJ14W: 6P4C, for two telephone lines (6P6C with power on third pair)
* RJ25C/RJ25W: 6P6C, for three telephone lines

What about the 4P4C handset plug?