Let's Twist Again - Photos

[electricalperson]

i found an old knob and tube feed that was twisted but was never taped or soldered probably been like that for 80 years. didnt have any signs of burning

 

[electricalperson]

UL doesn't say you 'have' to strip the conductor insulation before using the wirenut, right?:roll:

the instructions on the bag say we have to strip. 110.3B says we have to follow what the UL listing is. the instructions is what the UL listing of the wirenuts are based off of. i dont think wirenuts are ment to be current carriers just to hold the splice together. we did work for some guy that didnt strip any of the wires and put wirenuts and the fixture and it worked. but the current was traveling through the spring of the wirenut

 

[LJSMITH1]

the instructions on the bag say we have to strip. 110.3B says we have to follow what the UL listing is. the instructions is what the UL listing of the wirenuts are based off of. i dont think wirenuts are ment to be current carriers just to hold the splice together. we did work for some guy that didnt strip any of the wires and put wirenuts and the fixture and it worked. but the current was traveling through the spring of the wirenut

There are some folks on here that believe that the manufacturer's instructions are more of a "guide" rather than the rule. They also feel that UL does not require instructions to list the product.... (For the record, I do NOT share those opinions. )

The spring has very sharp edges that could act as insulation displacement contacts if screwed into the unstripped conductor. Depending on how hard the wire nut was twisted, how much insulation was displaced, how much contact pressure was exerted on the bare conductor, and how much current was flowing through those pierced points, would determine if the connection heated up or not. A 1200W toaster might 'toast' that wirenut vs a .5W wall wart (i.e. phone transformer).

 

[cschmid]

13 pages of posts on twist or no twist...I could not bring myself to read all 13 pages..just say no to pretwist it is a wasted step and teach proper wire nut usage. like make sure all your wires are even before appling wire nut and 9.9 times out of 10 it will work perfectly.. you can never get perfect except????????????????????? :grin:

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

There are some folks on here that believe that the manufacturer's instructions are more of a "guide" rather than the rule. They also feel that UL does not require instructions to list the product.... (For the record, I do NOT share those opinions. )

FWIW I believe that any instructions in the listing of labeling have to been followed. I would consider the labeling to be anything ON the product or in the published listing... JMO

 

[LJSMITH1]

i found an old knob and tube feed that was twisted but was never taped or soldered probably been like that for 80 years. didnt have any signs of burning

Probably not many amps running through that circuit to cause a problem. Plug in that AC window unit, and you would have a small BBQ.....

 

[480sparky]

13 pages of posts on twist or no twist...I could not bring myself to read all 13 pages..just say no to pretwist it is a wasted step and teach proper wire nut usage. like make sure all your wires are even before appling wire nut and 9.9 times out of 10 it will work perfectly.. you can never get perfect except????????????????????? :grin:

I dunno. Accepting a 1% failure rate on something so basic and simple seems a tad high. If 1% of all wire-nut splices fail, I can see the fire department being called to every job done with wire nuts.

 

[LJSMITH1]

FWIW I believe that any instructions in the listing of labeling have to been followed. I would consider the labeling to be anything ON the product or in the published listing... JMO

Just a FYI...

UL Listings do not specify manufacturer's installation instructions. However, when applying for a listing, the manufacturer is required to include the installation instructions with the product. UL engineers will then install the product per manufacturer's instructions, and test the product to the applicable UL standard. If the product passes the specification, the product is listed. The manufacturer is then required to ensure that the installation instructions are included on the label or literature packed with the product.

If instructions are not included on a label or with the product, the manufacturer could lose its UL listing until the deficiency on all identified product is corrected (either by recall or other means).

 

[Jesse7623]

13 pages of posts on twist or no twist...I could not bring myself to read all 13 pages..just say no to pretwist it is a wasted step and teach proper wire nut usage. like make sure all your wires are even before appling wire nut and 9.9 times out of 10 it will work perfectly.. you can never get perfect except????????????????????? :grin:

yeah pretwisting makes it really hard for the guy coming after you....with all those wires twisted so badly.where a properly installed wirenut does twist the wires but not nearly so excessively.

 

[Jesse7623]

I dunno. Accepting a 1% failure rate on something so basic and simple seems a tad high. If 1% of all wire-nut splices fail, I can see the fire department being called to every job done with wire nuts.

thats right 0.000% should be the only acceptable rule.My apprentice doesnt take time to properly attach the wirenut the way I taught him and he is gone.My boss taught me years ago that this was probably the most important aspect of the trade.

 

[hurk27]

yeah pretwisting makes it really hard for the guy coming after you....with all those wires twisted so badly.where a properly installed wirenut does twist the wires but not nearly so excessively.

Yea but if the wire nut was installed the right way the first time, there would have been no reason for the guy to come after me:roll:

wasn't that the subject of the OP?

 

[cschmid]

I dunno. Accepting a 1% failure rate on something so basic and simple seems a tad high. If 1% of all wire-nut splices fail, I can see the fire department being called to every job done with wire nuts.

ahh but nothing is perfect if one out of a hundred fail it is normally due to some operator failure. like twisting so tight it breaks the wire off. or connecting a stranded to a nuetral. I was at our new facility today abd in the new break room and 3 outlets for the microwaves did not work and neither did the pizza oven. new installation contractor still there nuetral twisted out of wire nut on one, it happens especially in a hurry.

 

[hillbilly]

I pre-twist...there, I've got that out of the way.
I've seen too many loose wire nut connections.
I will not change my mind...or method.

As far as the blue boxes.....I use them all the time, so maybe I'm a hack.:smile:

I feel better now.

steve

 

[480sparky]

ahh but nothing is perfect if one out of a hundred fail it is normally due to some operator failure. like twisting so tight it breaks the wire off. or connecting a stranded to a nuetral. I was at our new facility today abd in the new break room and 3 outlets for the microwaves did not work and neither did the pizza oven. new installation contractor still there nuetral twisted out of wire nut on one, it happens especially in a hurry.

But all those items listed is nothing the wire nut or the manufacturer can do anything about.... it is the fault of the installer.

This is akin to saying you saw a drunk drive their Ford into a bridge, therefore Fords are unsafe.

 

[LarryFine]

This is akin to saying you saw a drunk drive their Ford into a bridge, therefore Fords are unsafe.

I once saw a Ford driven into a drunk, so I agree.

 

[hurk27]

As far as the blue boxes.....I use them all the time, so maybe I'm a hack.:smile:

I feel better now.

steve

LOL I guess I'm a hack too, I like the blue box's because the save my fingers. when I nail up a box, I grab the stud with my fingers inside of the box to hold it to the stud with my thumb around the stud, well my not so perfect hammering misses once in a while and those fiberglass box's just crush, and "ouch" with the plastic box's the hammer just bounces off:grin: kind of like steel toed shoes for the fingers

 

[brian john]

yeah pretwisting makes it really hard for the guy coming after you....with all those wires twisted so badly.where a properly installed wirenut does twist the wires but not nearly so excessively.

38 years and 354 days of doing electric work I HAVE NEVER had an issue with this, learning to trouble shoot, undo connections and redo connections is part of the trade.

I pretwist 99% of the time

 

[electricmanscott]

this one still going......

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

this one still going......

yup and you and I are part of the problem :grin:

 

[iMuse97]

yup and you and I are part of the problem :grin:

just getting your daily minimum #of posts.