Residential service change-out survey

[earshavewalls]

Some of you may have seen this from me already, but I really need to get a consensus on this:

We are surveying communities throughout the country to see what policies and proceedures are in place concerning service change-outs or upgrades. Following are just a few questions that we are asking everyone and would appreciate a response so that we may fairly determine policy in our location.

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction?
2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed?
3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?
4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?
5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?

Thank you for your assistance.

 

[augie47]

As it was not a "poll", I responded by PM so as to not bore other readers with local issues.

 

[infinity]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? We have two.

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? None besides permit.

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this? We remove the seals and locks if the POCO hasn't come out and done so.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service? Inspection is after the new service is re-connected by us and is back up and running, typically a week or two later maybe more.

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? The utility will come out and make permanent connections and possibly change the meter if needed.

 

[1793]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? We have two.

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? None besides permit.

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this? We remove the seals and locks if the POCO hasn't come out and done so.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service? Inspection is after the new service is re-connected by us and is back up and running, typically a week or two later maybe more.

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? The utility will come out and make permanent connections and possibly change the meter if needed.

Are you sure you're not in my neck of the woods? :grin:

 

[charlie]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? Since I work for an electric utility, just the Indianapolis Power & Light Company. BTW, we serve all of Marion County which encompasses Indianapolis, Lawrence, Beech Grove, and Speedway, Indiana.

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? The city has no policy but IPL has no problem with the EC doing the disconnect.

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this? Yes, if IPL is notified that it is being done.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service? If inspected, they are inspected live if it is a service replacement. the City of Indianapolis uses 'self certification' and the EC just signs off on his work.

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? No, most of the time, the EC will make a temporary connection.

 

[al hildenbrand]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? Xcel.

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? There is no such policy.

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this? If the party doing the work has a permit, they may remove the seal and/or meter as needed.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service? The party doing the work reconnects the service with connections that are deemed "temporary". The power company makes the point of service connection "permanent" and reseals the socket only after receiving a "release" from an electrical inspector.
The inspector examines the service while it is "live" on the temporary connection..

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? Very rarely. The only problems occur when the party doing the work didn't follow all applicable power company requirements that aren't covered in the NEC.

 

[infinity]

Are you sure you're not in my neck of the woods? :grin:

Right or wrong that's the way it's been done here for decades and from what I've read it's done that way in a great many places. :smile:

 

[Buck Parrish]

Some of you may have seen this from me already, but I really need to get a consensus on this:

We are surveying communities throughout the country to see what policies and proceedures are in place concerning service change-outs or upgrades. Following are just a few questions that we are asking everyone and would appreciate a response so that we may fairly determine policy in our location.

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? 3- Duke, CP&L, Piedmont



2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? Licensed electricians should know what they are doing

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?If it is neccessary to make emergency repairs. Also upgrades, Not homeowners, though. Licensed electricians only

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?Both, the poco won't turn it on with out a inspection. But if you are a licensed electrician and have a permit. If some one is living in the house. It is not unussual for the electrician to turn it on.

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?Some times the poco can take until the next day to turn it on. I have not had any problems.

Thank you for your assistance.

.......................................................

 

[PetrosA]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction?

PECO/Exelon


2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed?

PECO serves a large area (4 or 5 counties IIRC) and each township, borough or city will have its own permitting and inspection requirements.


3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?

Can't say for homeowners (but probably no) but electricians regularly remove seals and meters for servicing or swapping/upgrading services.


4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?

Live. They don't usually open the meter socket.


5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?

No. The electrician will make the permanent connection.

 

[vango]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? Xcel Energy

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? Permit must be filed

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this? Yes, again as long as permit is recorded.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service? Inspections were done both ways depending on the situation.

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?
No, Electrical contractors here usually reconnect, however when the utility company is needed they have been quick not to leave the commercial or family dwellings without power at night.

 

[brantmacga]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction?

GA Power, two MEAG utilities, and three co-ops.


2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed?

In all of the cities I work in, the city has no policy other than buying a permit .

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?

Its never allowed.


4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?

None of the utilities will re-connect until the service has been passed by the AHJ.


5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?

No.


Residential service change-outs are a 1 day affair.


We coordinate w/ the customer, poco, and inspection dept to have everyone ready the same day. poco disconnects the service first thing in the morning. we're on-site waiting to get started the moment they disconnect power.

i maintain contact w/ the inspection dept to let them know what time i anticipate the job being ready for inspection. they send someone out the moment its finished; once the inspection is complete, the inspector calls the poco and authorizes them to reconnect, and they have a lineman on site by 5pm. they usually reconnect within an hour of the call.

i've had maybe two or three instances where the inspector couldn't make it out in time. they called the poco and gave them approval anyway, set it as a 30-day temp waiting for a final, and inspect the next day. after that its called in as a final by the inspector and nothing else needs to happen.

 

[lefty]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? there are 3 AEP, OG&E and a rural coop

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? one has no permit, the other requires permit, and the rural coop is in the country and requires no permit

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this? they want to be notified and then anybody can proceed

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service? "live" after the contractor is done sometimes a day or two later

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? we have to hook it up ourselves or have it scheduled with the poco, the rural coops are there in short notice and never a problem

 

[hurk27]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction?

NIPSCO (NI-SOURCE)
Kankakee Vally (CO-OP) (REMCO)

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed?

None, Done all the time here

3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?

Contractor only,(there are a few contractors not allowed, because of shoddy work) if bolt in meter, we notify PoCo and they estimate usage till new meter is installed after we are done.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?

Live, and they close the tag we leave (provided by the PoCo to contractors)

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?

Never, usually within 2 hours of call in, and treated as an Emg. outage

 

[billsnuff]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? City owned
2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? City will disconnect upon request
3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?No
4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?City will not reconnect until inspection is completed
5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? State Inspector has 72 hrs to complete inspection.

 

[PetrosA]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction? City owned
2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed? City will disconnect upon request
3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?No
4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?City will not reconnect until inspection is completed
5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved? State Inspector has 72 hrs to complete inspection.

Wow, so do you have to tell customers that it could be up to 72 hours before they get power turned back on? That would make a service upgrade a hard sell for a lot of people. Ouch!

 

[electricmanscott]

1) What Electrical Utility serves your jurisdiction?

National Grid. N Star. Unitil. Many Municipal Utilities

2) What is the policy of the City concerning disconnection of the service before work is performed?

They are not involved with that. I have 5 days after work is begun to obtain a permit. That and inspecting the work is really their only involvement


3) Are contractors or homeowners permitted to remove the seal and meter on their service without having the utility disconnect power prior to this?

No Idea if we are "permitted" but that is what we do.

4) Are inspectors inspecting these services "live", or are they inspected prior to re-energizing the service?

Inspected Live. You'd have a better chance of getting Santa Claus to come out that quick

5) Are there problems involved with reconnection of power after the change-out is approved?

No. Electricians reconnect. Some pocos will redo connection after inspection and some require the reconnect to be done with permanent means. (No hose clamps)

 

[earshavewalls]

I would like to again thank all who responded.

I am not sure about all POCOs, but ours has written policy in place that does not permit anyone other than an authorized employee of the POCO to remove the seal or meter, and another written policy stating that services shall not be energized until released by the Authority Having Jurisdiction.

This hasn't made any difference, as installers routinely cut seals, cut power on the utility side (at weatherheads) and reconnect power without a release and without any repercussions from the POCO. We are just trying to get everyone in our area to play by the rules. If we are not playing by the rules that are written for us, we need to change the rules.....or follow the ones we have.

We do have a policy at the City that states that our inspectors are not to inspect any installation with exposed live components. We make exception with residential services only to the point that the inspector must be able to perform the inspection from a distance of 36" from the panel (NFPA 70E). There is no reason for an inspector to have to inspect live components, especially when the installation is required to be inspected and released PRIOR to energizing.

From the consensus of this questionaire it is obvious that there is no true industry standard. Different areas within the same POCO coverage have different requirements. It would be nice if things could be more uniform, but that's the world we live in.

Thank you all again for your help and honest answers.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I am not sure about all POCOs, but ours has written policy in place that does not permit anyone other than an authorized employee of the POCO to remove the seal or meter, and another written policy stating that services shall not be energized until released by the Authority Having Jurisdiction.

Xcel's "Blue Book" limits seal breaking to "qualified persons". In Minnesota, an owner / occupant of a single family dwelling who has placed a completed State of MN electrical permit application (with payment) in a sealed stamped envelope at any mail collection point (the home's mailbox) is defined, by State statute, as the permit holder. Note, the State doesn't even know, at this point in time, that the permit application is on its way in the mail. None the less, this makes the homeowner the "qualified person". The same applies to the electrical contractor. Now, to be clear, within MN there are many jurisdictions that provide their own electrical inspection, permit application and fee structure, along with local ordinance, and these local jurisdictions vary from the "State-wide MN Electrical Act". Some local jurisdictions go so far as to require a placard, issued after application processing and payment, be placed on the job site, before work can commence.

A lot of my work is in Minneapolis, which, until about four years ago, was a "local jurisdiction" with local inspection, fees, permit form, and ordinance. One night the City Council voted the Electrical Department out of existence. The next morning, the State of MN was the AHJ. It has been extremely interesting experiencing the changes in regulation.

Back to the power company, and energization. Xcel's written policy requires release by the AHJ before "The Company" (Xcel) will energize "an electric service or set meters on new, rewired, altered, or repaired wiring installations". For Xcel, this means that the "permanent" splice (only installed by The Company) is what confers Xcel's acceptance of the customer's connection as "legal". Otherwise, Xcel may refuse service. . . but, in most cases, this takes months, or even a year or two.