It's the little things that annoy me

[electricmanscott]

Helped a buddy do a service change recently. He just had it inspected. The inspector said everything looked good but you forgot your bonding jumper between hot and cold water pipes and gas pipe. My buddy asked "is this something new?" The reply was "no, it's been in the code for thirty years. Just jump from hot to cold to gas at the water heater..."

There is no requirement to specifically bond hot and cold water pipes together.

The are interconnected at each shower, faucet, and the boiler. That takes care of that issue

Gas piping is bonded through boiler circuit. That takes care of that issue.

I've dealt with this guy before. If you happen to run insulated thhn for a grounding electrode or bonding conductor he "likes to see" green tape every foot or so.


Like I said, it's the little things.

Now I feel better. :grin:

 

[SEO]

Why not use green thhn?

 

[e57]

~ forgot your bonding jumper between hot and cold water pipes and gas pipe. My buddy asked "is this something new?" The reply was "no, it's been in the code for thirty years. Just jump from hot to cold to gas at the water heater..."

I miss the days when I could do it that way - and yes - for many many years. Locally about five years ago or more - it changed to gas from the bonding jumper itself to the gas meter at the second fitting. (For some reason the hot water is still OK at the water heater?) Like I said it been some years since the change, and I occasionally get asked when it changed by guys who find it a shocker.

 

[GUNNING]

Here we don't bond the gas. It messes up the cathartic protection on the gas pipes. Just the cold water at the water heater. The Clamp is to be exposed. And, oh yeah, 2 ground rods.

 

[480sparky]

Here we don't bond the gas........

You may very well need to if it's CSST.

 

[electricmanscott]

Why not use green thhn?

I'll counter that with why?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Here we don't bond the gas. It messes up the cathartic protection on the gas pipes. Just the cold water at the water heater. The Clamp is to be exposed. And, oh yeah, 2 ground rods.

It really doesn't mess up the cathodic protection system used by some gas utilities. The utilities that use that type of protection all use a dielectric union at the building because they know that even without a direct wire connection to the gas pipe in the building there will be indirect bonding as a result of contact with the metal parts of gas fired electrical equipment that also has an electrical connection.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...

The are interconnected at each shower, faucet, and the boiler. That takes care of that issue ...

I can see a requirement to jumper between the hot and cold water pipes in a new house, given that most of the faucet sets used are non-metallic and do not provide a bond between the hot and cold.

 

[dbuckley]

It's the little things that annoy me

Perhaps you should rent Point of No Return, a/k/a The Assassin in some markets.

Fonda's character has an attitude involving the little things....

 

[electricmanscott]

I can see a requirement to jumper between the hot and cold water pipes in a new house, given that most of the faucet sets used are non-metallic and do not provide a bond between the hot and cold.

True enough although I don't think I have ever seen a nonmetallic shower valve or faucet myself. Also most of the piping itself is plastic in new houses so it's not an issue there anymore. Unless you include the inspectors that are under the impression that you have to bond the 10 feet or so of copper that is fed from a plastic water line, supports the water meter, and then feeds the plastic piping in the house. In this area anyway.

My point in bringing this up is the annoyance I feel when put on the spot by an inspector who is either misinformed or likes to put his personal preferences into his inspecting pratices. In this case it wasn't even my job but it still irks me because I have dealt with him, many years ago but he is still up to the same stuff.

I know, there are bigger fish to fry. :smile:

 

[satcom]

I can see a requirement to jumper between the hot and cold water pipes in a new house, given that most of the faucet sets used are non-metallic and do not provide a bond between the hot and cold.

Don, the one we found to be a killer is when the water pipe bond at the water meter is missing, and there is a fault on the system, the guy replacing the water meter is in trouble.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don, the one we found to be a killer is when the water pipe bond at the water meter is missing, and there is a fault on the system, the guy replacing the water meter is in trouble.

The only time the guy working on the pipe is in trouble is when there is a problem with the neutral and the pipe is carrying the neutral current.

 

[mkgrady]

I'd like to make up a stamp. I'd like to stamp the following on my permit applications: "I understand I am required to follow the electrical code in the performance of the work to be performed in connection with this permit. I respectfully request that any part of my work found to be unacceptable to also actually be in violation of the applicable electric code and not the personal preference of the electrical inspector".

I invite anybody to use my idea and let the rest of us know how that works out.

 

[satcom]

I'd like to make up a stamp. I'd like to stamp the following on my permit applications: "I understand I am required to follow the electrical code in the performance of the work to be performed in connection with this permit. I respectfully request that any part of my work found to be unacceptable to also actually be in violation of the applicable electric code and not the personal preference of the electrical inspector".

I invite anybody to use my idea and let the rest of us know how that works out.

Here in Jersey I have not seen an inspector try to inforce a personal preference in over 20 years, they are very professional and when the rare situation comes up where they site something in question, we have a number at the DCA to call where we get the issue resolved fast.

 

[growler]

Here in Jersey I have not seen an inspector try to inforce a personal preference in over 20 years, they are very professional and when the rare situation comes up where they site something in question, we have a number at the DCA to call where we get the issue resolved fast.

I don't think things are as bad as everyone tries to say they are anyway. There is a proceedure for dealing with a ruling made by an inspector that you don't agree with.

The first thing to do is to confront the inspector and be prepaired to back up your own reasons for doing things in a certain manner.

If you can prove that you are right and the inspector won't back down the next thing to do is call his boss, the head electrical inspector. Most inspectors just want to keep their jobs so if the boss is willing to go along with whatever you can prove then it's normally alright with them.

If you can't get satisfaction at the local level then go to the DCA. The reason inspectors make stupid calls as far as code goes is that most are afraid of making a mistake and if they can get someone higher up to make a different call then they are happy because they are no longer responsible.

Inspectors are just people that want to get a pay check at the end of the week just like everyone else. They have a job and don't want to lose it. Sometimes they are not nearly as familiar with the work you are doing as you are, so you end up being the real expert.

 

[CopperTone]

i have done about 200 service upgrades in the past 5 years - yesterday an inspector told me that i had to have the panel cover removed for the inspection - now i have to drive 30 miles to take the cover off - then drive back 30 miles after the inpection - is that really necessary?

 

[LarryFine]

i have done about 200 service upgrades in the past 5 years - yesterday an inspector told me that i had to have the panel cover removed for the inspection - now i have to drive 30 miles to take the cover off - then drive back 30 miles after the inpection - is that really necessary?

Only the inspector's supervisor knows for sure.


If you want to contest the EI's demand, you need to ask the AHJ. Otherwise, if the EI insists, you won't get your final.

Option: Do you have a friend who is close to the job?