Arc Flash Survey

[Karl H]

I was informed today that I have to learn and perform Arc Flash Surveys.
I have 4 months to learn and perform this task. Anyone know of any books web sites or any other helpful hints on where I should start learning the process? I have a huge pot of coffee brewing, so I guess this is gonna be a
long work related weekend. :grin: Any help would be very appreciated!

 

[zog]

I was informed today that I have to learn and perform Arc Flash Surveys.
I have 4 months to learn and perform this task. Anyone know of any books web sites or any other helpful hints on where I should start learning the process? I have a huge pot of coffee brewing, so I guess this is gonna be a
long work related weekend. :grin: Any help would be very appreciated!

Yikes! It can take years to learn how to conduct arc flash surveys.

Are you an engineer?
Do you have a up to date one lines?
Do you have an up to date PDCS?
Do you have an up to date Short Circuit study?
What software are you using?
IEEE 1584 or NFPA 70E method?

If I were you I would consider paying a PE to do the study out of my own pocket and take a 4 month vacation

Are you doing this for a facility or is it a new service your company is providing to another company?
What type of facility?

 

[Karl H]

Yikes! It can take years to learn how to conduct arc flash surveys.

Are you an engineer?
Do you have a up to date one lines?
Do you have an up to date PDCS?
Do you have an up to date Short Circuit study?
What software are you using?
IEEE 1584 or NFPA 70E method?

If I were you I would consider paying a PE to do the study out of my own pocket and take a 4 month vacation

Are you doing this for a facility or is it a new service your company is providing to another company?
What type of facility?

No to all of above. I have to learn the process of performing a survey.
What data I need to log, software,calcs,NFPA sheets, etc.

 

[Karl H]

I understand those that proceed with caution. I will be happy to PM
anyone with my qualifications.

 

[zog]

No to all of above. I have to learn the process of performing a survey.
What data I need to log, software,calcs,NFPA sheets, etc.

Well you need to be an PE to do the short circuit and coordination study. You will need software, expect to spend around $10,000 on it. You will need to trace out a 1 line and measure all your bus runs, collect all the data off every fuse and breaker, etc...

 

[zog]

OK, here you go, read all 3 of these, you may want to print them out and show it to whoever is tasking you with this job, then go call someone that does this for a living, yoor company will save a fortune in the long run.

http://www.brainfiller.com/documents/ArcFlashJimPhillipsPart1.pdf

http://www.brainfiller.com/documents/ArcFlashJimPhillipsPart2.pdf

http://www.brainfiller.com/documents/ArcFlashJimPhillipsPart3.pdf

 

[ron]

zog, I agree with your statements, except the person performing the short circuit and coord study does not need to be a PE, unless the AHJ requires it, and so far I've never been asked for that condition.

 

[jim dungar]

Well you need to be an PE to do the short circuit and coordination study.

I know of no laws that require these studies to be done by a PE unless they are being offered to the public. I know of no state that does not have an exception for "in house" use. Power system studies do not have special "stamp and seal" requirements.

 

[Karl H]

Thanks for the info Zog. This is not for any particular project. I have to
learn how to perform a Arc Flash survey, that's the goal. I have been chosen
for this task by my employer due to my disciplined study habits,
dedication and some say " passion" for the electrical industry. BTW I am
preparing to get my P.E.

 

[weressl]

Well you need to be an PE to do the short circuit and coordination study. You will need software, expect to spend around $10,000 on it. You will need to trace out a 1 line and measure all your bus runs, collect all the data off every fuse and breaker, etc...

Where do you NEED TO BE a PE to perform SC&COO studies? How does a PE exam qualifies you to perform such studies? What KIND of PE? Civil?

 

[Karl H]

I also do design work and as long as the drawing doesn't go out for
public bid, I don't need a P.E stamp to do the drawings. Anyway,
thanks for the info.

 

[zog]

zog, I agree with your statements, except the person performing the short circuit and coord study does not need to be a PE, unless the AHJ requires it, and so far I've never been asked for that condition.

I have seen the specs for all these studies to require a PE stamp always assumed it was required but I guess just if the client requires it in the specs, I suppose for in house it wouldn't matter.

 

[StephenSDH]

My first company forced me to do Arc Flash studies when I didn't feel I was knowledgeable enough to perform them. Looking back I feel horrible for some of the crap studies they forced me put out. They finally landed a huge arc flash project and I quit. Hired another guy to replace me and a month later he quit.

Today I feel I could produce an arc flash study. The most important thing is you should be able to produce the study long hand before you use the computer to do it for you. You have to know the results you expect to get, and when the computer calculates results you didn't expect you can look at the trip curves, transformer impedance and see where the calculations went wrong. Expect a huge learning curve, if this is all new to you.

 

[Karl H]

My first company forced me to do Arc Flash studies when I didn't feel I was knowledgeable enough to perform them. Looking back I feel horrible for some of the crap studies they forced me put out. They finally landed a huge arc flash project and I quit. Hired another guy to replace me and a month later he quit.

Today I feel I could produce an arc flash study. The most important thing is you should be able to produce the study long hand before you use the computer to do it for you. You have to know the results you expect to get, and when the computer calculates results you didn't expect you can look at the trip curves, transformer impedance and see where the calculations went wrong. Expect a huge learning curve, if this is all new to you.

Thank you Stephen,

That's the approach I'm taking, I want to know how to do it "Long
hand," first,before I start trusting a computer program. That's the only way
I know how to check for errors. I did the same thing for load balance, and short circuit, before I made a Excel spread sheet.

 

[cadpoint]

I also do design work and as long as the drawing doesn't go out for
public bid, I don't need a P.E stamp to do the drawings. Anyway,
thanks for the info.

Well, that's not exactly what the your state laws say.

http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/building_design_auth.pdf

I knew it wasn't that simple, I know the laws of my State in reference to what you do, I just thought I'd look and share.

From the same page more information on Engineers and Surveyors,
http://www.pels.ca.gov/licensees/laws.shtml

 

[Karl H]

Well, that's not exactly what the your state laws say.

http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/building_design_auth.pdf

I knew it wasn't that simple, I know the laws of my State in reference to what you do, I just thought I'd look and share.

From the same page more information on Engineers and Surveyors,
http://www.pels.ca.gov/licensees/laws.shtml

I'm not a Architect, I design electrical systems.

 

[cadpoint]

Well, that's not exactly what the your state laws say.

http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/building_design_auth.pdf

I knew it wasn't that simple, I know the laws of my State in reference to what you do, I just thought I'd look and share.

From the same page more information on Engineers and Surveyors,
http://www.pels.ca.gov/licensees/laws.shtml

I'm not a Architect, I design electrical systems.

It seems you didn't equate where my responses where based on
from the Same Web page

http://www.pels.ca.gov/licensees/laws.shtml
This:

The 2009 Professional Engineers Act (Business and Professions Code sections 6700-6799)

Since your going for your PE you should at least know your own rules.

Enjoy

 

[Karl H]

I don't see where your going with this. I do not at this time have my P.E.
stamp as of yet. I do have 67 drawings that have been thru plan check and
have been approved without my P.E stamp and only 7% have been
"Over- the Counter." There is no law in California that does not allow
"In-House" drawings that are not subject to public bid. The City of San Diego
and I,would enjoy learning from you,the error in our ways.

 

[cadpoint]

Take a breath Karl

That's not what you said in your OP.

I know of no Electrical Designers as you stated or implied in your OP.

If I am far from the law, yeah I try to avoid it, if you don't know all the
laws, of your State that is no defense.

Frankly, if U read all of the Unlicensed requirements if seems youR in... as to
what you do...

Thanks, Enjoy

 

[Karl H]

Take a breath Karl

That's not what you said in your OP.

I know of no Electrical Designers as you stated or implied in your OP.

If I am far from the law, yeah I try to avoid it, if you don't know all the
laws, of your State that is no defense.

Frankly, if U read all of the Unlicensed requirements if seems youR in... as to
what you do...

Thanks, Enjoy

My State disagrees with you. My OP is about learning the "Process" of
doing a Arc Flash Survey. Nothing more nothing less. I've already compiled
29 hours of time and material in the understanding of the "Process."
I was simply looking for "Time-Saving" tips or words of wisdom from those that
do it professionally. Other than Stephen. I've only read posts that second guessed my education and suggested I'm not smart enough to learn such
a task. I'm really cranky from being up all night reviewing material on studies
and formulas. I will tolerate you much better after a nap. :grin: Just
kidding.