Approve a sign that don't work?
- Thread starter smallfish
- Start date
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hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I wouldn't think so, since many final inspections are done before any electric has been allowed to be turned on.
This is slowly going away as more and more areas are allowing the service to be energized after a service inspection and released to the POCO, instead of using temp power poles, here this is true.
This allows an inspector to test GFCI's and such, but I can remember the days of no power inspections and it was up to us to come back to make sure everything worked.
This is slowly going away as more and more areas are allowing the service to be energized after a service inspection and released to the POCO, instead of using temp power poles, here this is true.
This allows an inspector to test GFCI's and such, but I can remember the days of no power inspections and it was up to us to come back to make sure everything worked.
If all the NEC rules are satisfactory, what Article could an EI use to fail the job?
AFAIK, nothing in the NEC says any of the stuff we install actually has to work.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
I had to really think about your statement Celtic, to the beginning's of 2008'
While it's been said here before the 90's aren't part of the code!
I'll defer that my personal view is, and just like what my city and state have done, is to adopt the 90's and
I'll go with 90.1(A). I didn't read the disclaimer tonight!
It's just funny that the NFPA 70 NEC 2008 Edition is at the top of this page.
I do like the thought of a final inspection, as stated... it's final and operational to the task. I frankly won't know why I was there otherwise...
- Location
- Massachusetts
I think this is an interesting question but as the NEC is written I fully agree with Celtic. 
It's an everyday occurrence here. When we hook up Chillers, RTU's, Unit Heaters, Conveyors, Medical Equipment, or most anything that must be started up by a manufacturers technician after a C of O has been issued, the inspector only inspects our wiring, he / she doesn't care if the equipment works or not.
The sign company, maintenance personnel, or someone will have to check the lamps, ballast, or what have you to make it work.
Roger
The sign company, maintenance personnel, or someone will have to check the lamps, ballast, or what have you to make it work.
Roger
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
I personally don't feel it is within the scope of NEC to require "proper" operation of CERTAIN electrical equipment. Since the NEC is primarily a prescriptive code, peformance based requirements would more likely be outlined in the building code and/or local ordinances.
Obviously, things such as AFCI's, GFCI's, Smoke Alarms, Emergency Lights, and other "life safety" devices need to be operational to ensure of their proper operation. And it would be rather difficult to determine actual foot-candles and other performance-based requirements without proper operation; especially those outlined in the Energy Codes.
As for a sign, I could care less if it actually lights-up.
Obviously, things such as AFCI's, GFCI's, Smoke Alarms, Emergency Lights, and other "life safety" devices need to be operational to ensure of their proper operation. And it would be rather difficult to determine actual foot-candles and other performance-based requirements without proper operation; especially those outlined in the Energy Codes.
As for a sign, I could care less if it actually lights-up.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
I think the question becomes why doesn't the sign work? Is something miswired, ungrounded, damaged, or not finished somewhere else that is causing the sign not to work. I think by the sign not working it means that either the sign is broken or some work not visible is not done per the NEC. If the sign is new from the factory I think you can assume the sign is more likely to be working properly then the installation has been done correctly.
Depends on the quality control (or lack of). I have had a 20% ballast failure rate on a large fixture package (around 900 lay in's) once, so a sign not working from a factory would not surprise me at all.
Roger
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I've used that same line many times myself. We need the power on so that we can show you that the AC's work. Show me in the code where it says they have to work.
Jhaney
Senior Member
- Location
- owensboro, ky
Show me in the code where it says they have to work.
I can't wait for a chance too use that with my inspector!!!
360Youth
Senior Member
- Location
- Newport, NC
Most finals I do the power needs to be on so that inspector can verify that GFCI and AFCI circuits/outlets are duely protected. Not just a device/breaker labeled as such.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I do not see anything in the NEC that actually requires any of that to work, to be tested or for that matter even inspected.
To me this issue is squarely in the hands of the local AHJ and their own inspection procedures.
dcspector
Senior Member
- Location
- Burke, Virginia
Show me in the code where it says they have to work.
Agreed I do not care if it works. All was terminated properly and I walk away.
GrayHeadedMule
Member
WOW! That is just crazy! I sure hope there's not any electricians in our jurisdiction that read this forum! I could be in a LOT of trouble.
Ummm that GFCI doesn't work!........So!..........It wired up right!!!
Uh Oh!!!
Ummm that GFCI doesn't work!........So!..........It wired up right!!!
Uh Oh!!!
110.7 Wiring Integrity.
Completed wiring installations shall be free from short circuits, ground faults, or any connections to ground other than as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
How many inspectors, as a matter of course of duty, require an insulation integrity test when they conduct a "power off" final?
Pete
Completed wiring installations shall be free from short circuits, ground faults, or any connections to ground other than as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
How many inspectors, as a matter of course of duty, require an insulation integrity test when they conduct a "power off" final?
Pete
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