Recessed Lights Over Tub/Shower

[electricmanscott]

Did a walk through for a remodel today and the HO wants to install recessed can/vent fan over their tubs. We have installed these before, but never over a tub. It is listed as acceptable in shower applications if protected by GFI and used with PAR30L or PAR30LN lamp (seems to CFL), but I thought any trim over a tub/shower had to have glass lens. 410.4 just states that luminares shall be listed for area. Is it allowable to install open baffle in a shower area?

If you put a lens on that trim how will the fan work?

 

[360Youth]

If you put a lens on that trim how will the fan work?

I have not trimmed on out to see ifit will take a shower trim. I did not see one listed on the web site. I am sure it will, but I was a little surprised it did not offer the option in order to make the unit shower location acceptable, so I don't know.

 

[ivsenroute]

You will probably find that there is a foam rubber gasket that gets placed on the bulb where it screws into the socket.

This is rated for this application and is never a problem if the manufacturer's installation instruction are followed and it is listed and labeled.

Most tubs have shower heads anyway so whats the big deal. Put it in.

 

[mark32]

A gasketed lens on a damp location fixture would be a violation in this application. A listed wet location fixture with an open lamp listed for use in that fixture would be code compliant.

Infinity I must be missing something, are you saying a recessed can in the shower zone using a gasketed shower trim is a violation?

 

[infinity]

Infinity I must be missing something, are you saying a recessed can in the shower zone using a gasketed shower trim is a violation?

No, I said that even with a gasket a damp location fixture is not permitted in the shower zone. I was responding to elohr46 who said:

I can agree to those statements. Lower than 8', is subject to shower spray and in the 'zone' requires a lens or something that will keep the water out of the fixture. A gasketed lens is the only thing I see that works.

My point being that a gasketed lens means nothing if the fixture is rated for damp locations.

 

[elohr46]

My point being that a gasketed lens means nothing if the fixture is rated for damp locations.

A damp location fixture was never in question, the OP discussion was a wet location fixture. Just because it is rated for a wet location it doesn't mean you can take a garden hose and squirt water directly into it.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

That fixture does pull air around the bulb, if you put a shower trim in it, it won't move air. All you need to do is GFI the power and use a PAR bulb. And when I install regular recessed lights over showers, they get a shower trim, 40 watt bulb, and that's it. The comment about lights being over the shower zone is ONLY for light that protrude from ceiling.

 

[infinity]

A damp location fixture was never in question, the OP discussion was a wet location fixture. Just because it is rated for a wet location it doesn't mean you can take a garden hose and squirt water directly into it.

You should read the definition in Article 100 of Location, Wet.

 

[elohr46]

You should read the definition in Article 100 of Location, Wet.

You should read art. 410.10(A).

 

[infinity]

You should read art. 410.10(A).

OK I did, what's your point?

 

[M. D.]

I'm not quite sure what the issue is here?? the fixture is listed for the location ... I would also like to say that if the ceiling is Sheetrock or plaster on blue-board .. I doubt the building code would allow such a surface be used in a wet location ,.. occasionally damp perhaps,..but not one that become saturated with water ... sheet rock falls when saturated with water ...

 

[360Youth]

I'm not quite sure what the issue is here??

My whole issue was that I had once again fallen victim to how its always been done vs. what code actually says. From day one shower location recessed have had lens covers, from electricians that I orked with and for, and from inspectors. Some of the reasons I have heard of is spray, some of the reasoning has been shattered lamps. When I saw that this fixture was listed for wet location with no provision changes other then the Par lamp it made me (gasp ) look it up. If there is one thing I have learned, it has as much or more to do with UL listings than anything NEC has to say. I have said it before and I'll say it again, manufactures can get away with stuff field installers never could.

 

[Chamuit]

If there is one thing I have learned, it has as much or more to do with UL listings than anything NEC has to say. I have said it before and I'll say it again, manufactures can get away with stuff field installers never could.

The code constantly refered to material being "Listed for the use." If it's listed for that application, and you install it as per the instructions, then you are okay. Wet, damp, horizontal, vertical, and all other things being equal.

 

[elohr46]

OK I did, what's your point?

The point being luminaires shall be installed per NEC "wet and damp locations".
It's possible to install that fixture so it will be code compliant, just follow the guidelines of 410.10(A).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

My whole issue was that I had once again fallen victim to how its always been done vs. what code actually says. From day one shower location recessed have had lens covers, from electricians that I orked with and for, and from inspectors. Some of the reasons I have heard of is spray, some of the reasoning has been shattered lamps. When I saw that this fixture was listed for wet location with no provision changes other then the Par lamp it made me (gasp ) look it up. If there is one thing I have learned, it has as much or more to do with UL listings than anything NEC has to say. I have said it before and I'll say it again, manufactures can get away with stuff field installers never could.

Thom if a fan unit had a trim that was totally enclosed then what good would it do. The fan needs to allow air in to it.

FWIW, every fan I have seen listed for a shower basically just calls for a GFCI protection.

 

[360Youth]

Thom if a fan unit had a trim that was totally enclosed then what good would it do. The fan needs to allow air in to it.

Don't get technical with me...:grin: Good point. First time I have actually used these, tho I have seen them for a while. I would just have to address the air flow issue once I got that lamp good and covered.

 

[hurk27]

Don't get technical with me...:grin: Good point. First time I have actually used these, tho I have seen them for a while. I would just have to address the air flow issue once I got that lamp good and covered.

You know I once tried to make a fixture in a clothes closet compliant by installing a screw in CFL, because it was about 10" away from the shelf, but the inspector said that it wouldn't fly.:roll:

but a manufacture can do the same thing and get away with it.

 

[M. D.]

You know I once tried to make a fixture in a clothes closet compliant by installing a screw in CFL, because it was about 10" away from the shelf, but the inspector said that it wouldn't fly.:roll:

but a manufacture can do the same thing and get away with it.

I'll bet you had was a lamp holder,.. and though a fixture can hold a lamp ,..a lamp holder is not a fixture,..I'm told lamp holders were never allowed in clothes closets

 

[hurk27]

I'll bet you had was a lamp holder,.. and though a fixture can hold a lamp ,..a lamp holder is not a fixture,..I'm told lamp holders were never allowed in clothes closets

no it was an unclosed fixture with a medium base socket, open bulbs are not allowed in a closet no matter if it was a florescent or not. those G4 florescent key less are not made for clothes closets even though I had seen someone try them once.

the inspector said it had to be a fixture that could only accept a florescent bulb as someone could put a incandescent in it.:roll: