I'm an industrial/maintenance electrician and work for a lubricant manufacturer in Illinois. I have an electrical contractors license. The owner of the company does not want to bother with permits to install machinery and equipment at a new location which is already established. Does anybody know if I would be jeopardizing my license or would his company be liable? Thanks.
installation without permit!
- Thread starter 2wired
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Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
I would say his. JMO
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Are you working as an employee or as a sub-contractor for this company? Do you have your licensed assigned to the company or is your contractors license seperate from any work that you do for the company?
Power Tech
Senior Member
- Location
- Lebec, California
Write in your contract: Customer responsible for all permits. Contractor will pull permits upon the request of the customer. All permits will be billed separately. Engineering and plan check will be additional to the permit fee.
I went too far but, all you need it do is write it in and get it signed. This is how service work gets done without a permit. Many times the customer wants permits. I accommodate and charge for it then.
I went too far but, all you need it do is write it in and get it signed. This is how service work gets done without a permit. Many times the customer wants permits. I accommodate and charge for it then.
ceb58
Senior Member
- Location
- Raeford, NC
If I understand your post, you are a ME that works for a lube. mfg. and you also have your EC license. Now if you are an employee of the company it's not your problem or responsibility if the owner doesn't pull permits. Its his butt that's on the line. I do not know about Illinois but you as a licensed EC may be obligated to report him for doing electrical work with out a permit. (Catch 22)
Now if you are dong this work as a EC then it is your responsibility to make sure all permits are in place and that all inspections are done no matter what the owner may or may not want. It's now your butt on the line.
Vinniem
Senior Member
- Location
- Central Jersey
talk to a lawyer You never know. Each state may have a different set of rules on who is responsible.
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
Do not some (most) states/municipalities have "yearly permits" that could be obtained for industrial facilities staffed with qualified personnel? If the inconvenience factor is what's hiccuping him maybe an option.
Power Tech
Senior Member
- Location
- Lebec, California
So your telling me if a customer doesn't want to get permits "I starve to death".
I don't think so.
I would never turn my boss in. Is this NAZI Germany or America.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
In lieu of turning the boss in, make sure to keep a log of illegal installations to use for bargaining, uh, I mean defense, at a later time. Like when you are terminated for 'no reason'.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I think that some areas do allow the customer to opt out of the permit requirement but in others a permit is required and it's not up to the home or business owner.
Allowing a home or business owner to decide if a permit is necesary would be like allowing your dog to decide if he needed a bath ( just wouldn't happen).
fridaymean
Member
- Location
- Illinois
Most places that license in IL want to know if you are working for someone else.....that said, I don't know if you would be liable...
Hopefully when all is said and done, it won't matter anyway.
Hopefully when all is said and done, it won't matter anyway.
Power Tech
Senior Member
- Location
- Lebec, California
I think that some areas do allow the customer to opt out of the permit requirement but in others a permit is required and it's not up to the home or business owner.
Allowing a home or business owner to decide if a permit is necesary would be like allowing your dog to decide if he needed a bath ( just wouldn't happen).
So, let's say you get a call and a customer wants a ceiling fan and a switch put in. She says, "I don't want a permit". Do you walk away?
fridaymean
Member
- Location
- Illinois
Nope, If they refuse, state the same, "Permits by property owner"
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
In this area we don't normally bother with a permit for a ceiling fan and switch. I doubt if there is an inspector around that would even question me about it. I don't know of any contractors that permit jobs like that in this area.
The penalty for working without a permit here is two times the normal permit fee and the permit would be around $30 so you are only taking a chance on a $60 cost.
But if I go to do a complete basement finish and the homeowner doesn't want a permit. NO go because they will normally cut lots of corners because of the lack of inspections.
If you want the truth I list fans and switches as a repair of existing circuits.
I have had inspectors ask why I bother with permits for sub panels but I don't know what the customer will install once I leave or the quality of the work so I would prefer a permit and an inspection of what I leave at the job.
It's really up to you the contractor when you think a permit is necessary and what risk you are willing to take. I sure as heck won't let the customer make that decision for me. I also don't let them tell me how to do the work or anything else that's I think is necessary to protect my interest.
You run away, it only take one small electrical job to get you into big time liability and fines, just not worth the loosing everything, there are many contractors that just don't understand the reason for permits, they assume they are for the city to make money, when in fact in most cases, the city looses money on operating inspections, when a city operates a inspection program, they save everyone money, by keeping the underwriting rates low, towns and cities are rated by insurance companies, and cities that have good fire and electical inspections also have good insurance rates, so everyone wins, It's just unreal that many don't understanf the whole process, including the person that has the most to loose the homeowner.
SPARKS40
Member
- Location
- Northern Il
Illinois does not have any "licensing" provisions", so to speak, unless you are a plumber, roofer, or general contractor. Persons performing electrical work are normally required to register with the county or municipality where they wish to provide services. In my county, all that is required is a $25 "registration" fee. They do not even require a liability policy unless you plan to temp a service on an upgrade. The owner of your company is not required to obtain a permit just to install or relocate a piece of machinery. This may be different if he was asking you to install distribution equipment.
Power Tech
Senior Member
- Location
- Lebec, California
I do everything to or above code, that is my job weather it is inspected or not. If they sign a contract stating the owner is responsible for permits. Contractor will pull permits upon request. This is making the customer aware they are responsible. I charge $1000 to pull a permit in LA because I have to buy a business license and it is a pain. I tell the customer to go get it, save themselves $700. My time + License and permit. I have an agreement with a corporation that I will get permits for everything. I also have customers that hate the city. All the work is done to code, and I have a contract. I am a contractor, not a cop. I am contracting. I give the customers everything and more when it comes to the B&P code. If I face the guy in the black robe I will win.
highendtron
Senior Member
In the towns around K.C. MO, if you are caught by the AHJ without a permit the first time is a triple charge for the permit fee and it gets progressively worse...As a master you are held responsible and the liability is all yours...
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