pm questions

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mickeyrench

Senior Member
Location
edison, n.j.
Maybe some of you maintenance electricians can help me out. I take pm's on motors , record the readings , vibration , volt , amps , temp, meg . I have been taking readings for a year without any feed back from managment. There has not been " we have to check xyz it has low readings". What are they comparing the readings to? i don't see a machnical person checking this.
The form has a " reading" "pass" "fail" and we check off which it should be. Should we know the passing readings without any previous reading infront of us? Should we know what vib.or meg reading is passing?
Some of us are apprent. and some are machniacs. Thank you guys for your responses.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
Yes to most of your questions.

But in my experience most facilities (MOST NOT ALL) have their facility maintenance personnel take readings to keep them busy. I say this because no one reviews the data, no one tracks the data and no one on staff bothers to learn what is important or what any of it means.
 

Ebow

Member
Years ago I set up just such a program for the municipal water plant that I worked for. We started off the program with absolutely no prior data. The data was logged into a book for the equipment being tested by the mechanic or electrician performing the test. While I reviewed the data when I could it was up to the tester to bring to my attention any abnormalities. Abnormalities being any reading that was not consistent with previous readings. Back then (man am I getting old) we did not have the luxury of computers to do the graphing and etc. we had to do it all by hand. But we could see the trends and determine if further investigation needed to be done.
While someone should be reviewing your data it may be up to the data collector to have the initative to point out inconsistencies. In the case of failure the collected data will be a guideline to prevent such a failure from occuring again. The type of PM program you are talking about can be a good thing if used properly, if not it is just 'busy work'.
Back then most of us could tell you as much about a piece of machinery by the feel of it when we walked into the building as most of the "meter" readings would. But then again we would also be found at the bar after work discussing how a certain gear drive, or switch gear, or feed pump, etc. did not "seem" right when we walked by it today. Old school guys doing things the old school way, I guess.

Gene
______________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.
 

eric9822

Senior Member
Location
Camarillo, CA
Occupation
Electrical and Instrumentation Tech
Vibration checks are worthwhile assuming you use a system that trends the data collected. Periodic infrared temperature scans of the starter bucket and motor are also worthwhile. Amp checks, voltage checks, and megger checks are a complete waste of time unless a problem is suspected. IMHO.
 

eric7379

Member
Location
IL
mickeyrench-do you work in an ISO registered facility? If so, then it may be a requirement for management to have documentation that PM's are done on equipment. That means that management doesn't care about the readings that you have, just as long as you give them documentation showing that a machine or motor was PM'd.

A vast majority of the management-types that are out there have absolutely no clue what it is that they are actually looking at when you give them a PM sheet. They are relying on you to be the eyes and ears.

At the facility that I work at, we are ISO registered and it is an ISO requirement to show documentation that PM's are being done. (PM's were being done before we were ISO registered as well.) On a 200HP DC motor PM on one particular machine, we noticed that the brushes had been worn down from 3.5" to 1.5" in a 3 month time period. Off the top of my head, a normal wear rate is about a quarter inch in the same time period (I might be wrong). We discovered this abnormal wear rate during the PM and then brought it to the attention to management. We had the motor removed and sent out to be rebuilt in less than a week. Luckily, we have spare motors for cases like this.

Amperage readings play a vital role as well. An increase in the amperage can be indicative of a possible mechanical failure (bearings) in the motor itself or in whatever the motor is turning.
 
mickeyrench-do you work in an ISO registered facility? If so, then it may be a requirement for management to have documentation that PM's are done on equipment. That means that management doesn't care about the readings that you have, just as long as you give them documentation showing that a machine or motor was PM'd.

A vast majority of the management-types that are out there have absolutely no clue what it is that they are actually looking at when you give them a PM sheet. They are relying on you to be the eyes and ears.

At the facility that I work at, we are ISO registered and it is an ISO requirement to show documentation that PM's are being done. (PM's were being done before we were ISO registered as well.) On a 200HP DC motor PM on one particular machine, we noticed that the brushes had been worn down from 3.5" to 1.5" in a 3 month time period. Off the top of my head, a normal wear rate is about a quarter inch in the same time period (I might be wrong). We discovered this abnormal wear rate during the PM and then brought it to the attention to management. We had the motor removed and sent out to be rebuilt in less than a week. Luckily, we have spare motors for cases like this.

ISO registration does not qualify the usefullness of the work done, it's only function is to monitor that you do what you write and you write what you do.

As far as the motor goes, did anyone established that it is indeed a motor issue, not a off-shore supply of 'inexpensive' brushes? The wear rate usually does not go from good to bad in a single step change, b ut comparative trending of the wear rate will be an indicator that the commutator needs to be re-cut. You would also notice the tracking changes on the surface. Was THAT part of the PM procedure?
 

eric7379

Member
Location
IL
ISO registration does not qualify the usefullness of the work done, it's only function is to monitor that you do what you write and you write what you do.

As far as the motor goes, did anyone established that it is indeed a motor issue, not a off-shore supply of 'inexpensive' brushes? The wear rate usually does not go from good to bad in a single step change, b ut comparative trending of the wear rate will be an indicator that the commutator needs to be re-cut. You would also notice the tracking changes on the surface. Was THAT part of the PM procedure?

You are very correct about ISO. IMHO, I think that unless it is followed properly and a quality system is in place, ISO is a complete joke and a waste of time and effort. By no means is it a measurement of the quality of the product. It only means that the same faulty product is made the same way each and every time. The managers and supervisors here scramble when there is an ISO audit because they want to make sure that all of the PM sheets are filled out properly and that the machine operators have filled out the daily PM sheets as it applies to their job function. There have been times in which the operators' sheets haven't been filled out for months, but when there is an audit, the supervisors tell the operators to fill the sheets out, which is falsifying information. As I said, a complete joke unless, as you said, you do what you write and you write what you do.

On our PM sheets, we do write down anything that is out of the ordinary such as whether or not there is ghosting or burning or any grooves worn into the commutator. If any of the brush holders or springs are changed, that is written down as well. Yes, we also measure the length of each brush and write it down. If there is anyting unusual about the brush condition (pitting, etc.) then it is also recorded. The individual brush locations on the commutator are also tracked.

As far as the brushes go, we only use Helwig Carbon or GE brushes. On the particular incident that I mentioned before, it was not 100% of the story. The particular motor in question had not been PM'd for 12 months (we run 24/7 and management does not want to shut the machines down for a PM, despite our pleadings. On that aspect, my hands are tied. I can't do a PM if management never wants to shut the machine down. We constantly push management to do PM's every 3 months, but if they don't want to, then we can't do it.

As I said, it had been 12 months since the last PM. Prior to that, the brushes had started to show an increasing amount of wear between PM's, but it wasn't quite at a rate yet that we would have pulled the motor and sent it out. As you have probably already guessed where this is going to lead, the brushes had gotten so short after 12 months that they started to arc on the commutator and the commutator was pitted pretty badly. One of the other shifts tried their best to try and re-surface the commutator, but it was too far gone. It ran for 3 more months and on the next PM was when we saw that the wear rate was almost 2" over a 3 month period. That was when we pulled the motor and sent it out for repair.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
ISO registration does not qualify the usefullness of the work done, it's only function is to monitor that you do what you write and you write what you do.
I think our QA manager might see it a little differently.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
The few companies I have worked at with ISO certification were not any better and in many cases worse. I saw nothing but a badge much like the company statements that are so prevalent. Listing how wonderful the company is, improving the community, boosting productivity, have the happiest employees, goal to have the best customers, 2000% satisfaction. In the mean time it is business as usual.

IMO a joke.
 
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