New house service has no unused spaces
- Thread starter ozark01
- Start date
- Status
Yes.
Hopefully, the panel is rated for use with tandem breakers.
However, filling a panel in new construction is an extremely poor design and using tandems shows poor planning.
Probably the closest you'll find is 90.8(A).
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
90.8 Wiring Planning.
(A) Future Expansion and Convenience. Plans and specifications that provide ample space in raceways, spare raceways, and additional spaces allow for future increases in electric power and communication circuits. Distribution centers located in readily accessible locations provide convenience and safety of operation.
From the 2008 NFPA NEC Handbook:
The requirement for providing the exclusively dedicated equipment space mandated by 110.26(F) supports the intent of 90.8(A) regarding future increases in the use of electricity. The phrase ?and communications circuits? was added for the 2005 Code to point out the importance of considering communications circuits when planning future needs. Electrical and communications distribution centers should contain additional space and capacity for future additions and should be conveniently located for easy accessibility.
Where electrical and communications distribution equipment is installed so that easy access cannot be achieved, a spare raceway(s) or pull line(s) should be run at the initial installation. . .
The NEC doesn't include anything other than to make to make a statement about what would be nice to have. The handbook commentary makes some should statements (the red is mine) but there is no requirement to be smart. Also, the builder may have required a shoestring job for the electrician to get the job. If I were the electrician, I would not put my money into a larger and more expensive panelboard unless someone were willing to pony up the cash for the additional expense.
(A) Future Expansion and Convenience. Plans and specifications that provide ample space in raceways, spare raceways, and additional spaces allow for future increases in electric power and communication circuits. Distribution centers located in readily accessible locations provide convenience and safety of operation.
From the 2008 NFPA NEC Handbook:
The requirement for providing the exclusively dedicated equipment space mandated by 110.26(F) supports the intent of 90.8(A) regarding future increases in the use of electricity. The phrase ?and communications circuits? was added for the 2005 Code to point out the importance of considering communications circuits when planning future needs. Electrical and communications distribution centers should contain additional space and capacity for future additions and should be conveniently located for easy accessibility.
Where electrical and communications distribution equipment is installed so that easy access cannot be achieved, a spare raceway(s) or pull line(s) should be run at the initial installation. . .
The NEC doesn't include anything other than to make to make a statement about what would be nice to have. The handbook commentary makes some should statements (the red is mine) but there is no requirement to be smart. Also, the builder may have required a shoestring job for the electrician to get the job. If I were the electrician, I would not put my money into a larger and more expensive panelboard unless someone were willing to pony up the cash for the additional expense.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
How many circuits is the panel listed/rated for and how many circuits are actually being used?
If it's a 40 position panel with room for only 30 full sized breakers and there is only one tandem breaker being used there are still 9 possible spare circuits.
Check the number of circuits that the panel is rated for and count the number of circuits that have been installed.
Buy the way if there is room for it I buy the full sized 40 position panels because I like the extra room and the full sized breakers but everyone isn't like that.
With the deletion of the 42-max limit, you can get panels with more spaces these days.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
I hope to and I hope everyone else does as well. Thank you!
30 circuit Square D panel with one tandem for a total of 31 spaces being used. The house has gas heat, gas water heater, and gas range. Two condensing units at 21 amps each FLA. Electric dryer. Both A/C's running together amped out a 25 amps with an amp meter.
Attached is a picture of the panel.
Attached is a picture of the panel.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If that's a 30/40 panel it has 9 spare single pole spaces. If it's only a 30 circuit panel you already have a violation.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
It looks like 2 grounded conductors.
But for what?
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
AFI breaker tails that did not reach the neutral bar.
Looks to me like they made it. I don't think the AFCI's pigtail is under that red wire nut at all.... it goes to the top right terminal. It's just under the make-up and looks like it's in it, but I don't think it is.
Look at the pigtails on the left and right...... 5 out of 7 are terminated all the way down to the bottom.
Edit to add: I did notice there are two types of AFCI breakers. Some with white test buttons, some with yellow. I don't think the yellow ones are combo-type.
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Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Blow up the pic they are definitely pigtailed AFCI neutrals. One looks like it has two home runs
I disagree. I see 7 AFCI breakers, and 7 pigtails landing on the neutral bar.
I got a dollar that says the pigtail is not in that wirenut, but goes to the top right neutral terminal. I can see a little bit of it behind the two whites that are in the nut, yet behind the red of the wire nut.
I'm curious as to why GFI breakers.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I agree. I don't recall what the configuration is on a 30 circuit Sq D main breaker panel but, the panel cover is usually the place of reference and will tell whether tandem breakers can be used.infinity said:
Looking at the blown up photos and on a side bar to this I'd like to ask where are the GEC and water main ground wires landed ? I don't see them in the panel. Didn't mean to throw a wrench into things:roll:
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