Phase Convertors for Lathe

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Was wondering if there is anyone who can give me thoughts on hooking up a lathe in a work shop.....

the lathe is 3ph 7.5hp motor the shop is only single phase, wouldn't it be easier /cheaper to replace the lathe motor with the equivalent single phase motor and not mess with a convertor?

I realize the single phase motor would be physically larger and draw more ?
 

jim dungar

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Location
Wisconsin
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PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I have done projects like this using Variable Frequency Drives (VFD) that allow a 1-phase input and provide a 3-phase output and also by using a rotary phase convertor. Both methods worked well and met the customer's needs.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Was wondering if there is anyone who can give me thoughts on hooking up a lathe in a work shop.....


Is this a wood lathe and belt driven. Is there any sort of speed control or drive system for the motor.

If it's an old piece of equipment with a belt drive and no speed controls then it may be possible to change out to a single phase motor. You would need a motor that could be mounted in the same spot similar frame and shaft size and operating speed and the motor starter would need to be changed out.

You would have to provide a bit of information about the equipment before anyone could determine if a motor could be swapped out. You could contact the manufacturer to see if a single phase version of the machine was built and they could furnish you with the information of what all would need to be replaced.
 

bbaumer

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
I have done projects like this using Variable Frequency Drives (VFD) that allow a 1-phase input and provide a 3-phase output and also by using a rotary phase convertor. Both methods worked well and met the customer's needs.

+1 on the VFD. Get lots of built-in protection parameters too with the VFD.

These is a size limitation though from what I recall. i.e. I don't think you can do this with a 50 hp motor for example but small motors you can for sure. Just don't remember the size cut-off now on available drives for this application.
 

Doug S.

Senior Member
Location
West Michigan
My lathe is VFD fed, from single phase to a 3? motor.
I wired it this way for speed control, and the vfd was cheaper than a motor.

HOWEVER, 7.5hp may present a challenge. I do not personally know of any VFD specifically designed to feed something that size via single phase.
Another concern would be axillary motor controls, or DROs and the like.

What kind of lathe is this? 7.5hp will hog some big chips in metal or wood.

Regards,
Doug S.

Edit: IIRC This is what I'm running, 3hp is the max according to this.
 
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bpk

Senior Member
I recently did the same thing for a 7.5hp motor for a metal forming machine. The drive that I used was a Delta brand (had never heard of them before) but it was one that the equipment manufacturer had recomended. It was a 15hp. drive and was around 600 bucks.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
Was wondering if there is anyone who can give me thoughts on hooking up a lathe in a work shop.....

the lathe is 3ph 7.5hp motor the shop is only single phase, wouldn't it be easier /cheaper to replace the lathe motor with the equivalent single phase motor and not mess with a convertor?

I realize the single phase motor would be physically larger and draw more ?
It can be done as others have said. You'd need know that your single phase service voltage was compatible with the three phase motor voltage.
 

jdsmith

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
My lathe is VFD fed, from single phase to a 3? motor.
I wired it this way for speed control, and the vfd was cheaper than a motor.

HOWEVER, 7.5hp may present a challenge. I do not personally know of any VFD specifically designed to feed something that size via single phase.
Another concern would be axillary motor controls, or DROs and the like.

Edit: IIRC This is what I'm running, 3hp is the max according to this.


There is a note buried somewhere in the Allen Bradley Powerflex 700 manual saying that in general you can feed any of their three phase drives with single phase power if you double the size of the drive - consult an AB applications engineer in these cases though. I haven't done this myself, and this assumes that the customer can afford an AB drive...
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Are all these VFD, rated as a service disconnect?

Besides it being just a wood lathe in other causes would you want to have a manual disconnect or even
required to have a fusable disconnect down line or would this be redundiant as to using a VFD
(all knowing and all seeing) :grin: I don't know I'm truly asking!

Can you get all types of fuseable VFD's ?

How do you size the breaker and conductors for the 1 ph, I assume after the VFD the line sizes would be all 3 ph...
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Usally the drive installation instructions will tell you the current input for single phase connections. I am going to assume, because I never took the time to calculate it, that if the drive is rated a 10 kw you would provide conductor enough for 10 kw. Roughly 12 amp for 3ph vs 21 for 1ph. (times any multipliers needed)

The drive will provide all the overcurrent protection and then some for the motor, depending on how and what parameters you set. Installation instructions again will tell you the max size of fusing/cb allowed ahead of the drive. Usually this is way more than what I use. Contactors on the line side and/or load side will depend on the application and if you are required to proved an emergency stop for the driven equipment. I have not been required as yet to provide such a stop. The drives we have installed shut down via control prior to the opening of safety switches etc with overlapping controls. This method is also used to provide power to the drive before any control contact is closed.
 

glene77is

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
CB,
I'd opt for a rotary 3 phase generator.
Lots of models for 7.5 hp 3 phase motors,
simple and guaranteed to work from the git-go.

Remember, that if you change out the motor (for a single phase)
then you have to remount the motor.
I would rather leave the original equipment un-modified.

:)
 

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
You have 3 choices on how to supply power to your lathe motor (plus the option of replacing the motor).

Static Converter: A store-bought static converter should not even be considered an option, as they will only get the motor spinning, and then leave it to single-phase, and we all know how detrimental it can be to drop a phase from a motor. However, you can modify a store-bought converter (or build your own) to turn it into a "Balanced Static Converter", and this will provide the motor with a reasonable 3-phase input. My old Oliver lathe started out using a balanced static converter, but I discovered that the starting circuit kept reengaging when I loaded my much smaller lathe to full-load.

Rotary Converter: A rotary converter will give you pretty good 3-phase power at a broader range of tool load. The beauty of these is that if you know how to use a voltmeter, you can build your own for way less money than a store-bought converter (same applies to balanced static too). The downside to the RPC is that if you buy an off-the-shelf unit, you are spending about the same amount of money as you would spend on a VFD, without getting the extra benefits of a VFD for a lathe. But for an old legacy motor that you would have a hard time replacing, the RPC is the safest solution.

VFD: For a woodworking lathe, my number-one recommendation without reservation is a VFD. Even if your lathe uses a reeves drive for speed control (infinitely variable) it still has a minimum speed at which it can reduce the motor speed.

A few years ago when I needed to turn a very massive table pedestal, I removed the RPC from my lathe and replaced it with a VFD so I could slow the lathe down further than the reeves drive would permit. For normal turning operations, I keep the VFD at 60 hertz, and use the reeves drive for speed control (this is the healthiest method for the non-VFD-rated motor). But, when I need to run the lathe at very low rpm, I set the reeves drive to its lowest speed (less load on the motor) and then use the VFD to drop the motor speed.

Most VFDs that are designed for 1-phase input are smaller than 3 hp, but you can still use larger VFDs on single-phase as long as you derate them to 66% of their full-load rating. That's because the input section of the VFD rectifies the AC signal into a DC bus, and it is the amps/phase through each diode bank that limits the available power. However, a 7.5 hp lathe is HUGE, and it is very unlikely that you could ever load that motor to 66% of its rating. So in this case, if you derate the lathe to never exceed 5 hp (which is still huge), then you won't need to derate the VFD (save $$$) and can use a 7.5 hp VFD that outputs only 5 hp.

I have a few self-help articles on my website for phase converters and the VFD is briefly mentioned in the Contruction Blog for a $15,000 dining room table (that's where the pictures below came from).

I chose to use a GS2 VFD for my 800 pound, 1 hp Oliver lathe because it had the features I wanted, but also because it had a remote keypad/display that I could mount on top of the reeves drive so I could monitor speed and amperage to the motor.

RemoteDisplay2.jpg


This is a picture of the turning blank that prompted me to install the VFD. It weighs somewhere in the ballpark of 60+ pounds and is so large that I had to manually round the corners with a planer before I could turn it on the lathe.

squareturn-lo.jpg
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Cool post Rick!!

I'm surprised that VFD isn't mounted in a Nema 12 box, doesn't sawdust fill the VFD openings?

Any after pics of that big turning blank?:)
 
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