#14 switch legs on 20A OCP

[mivey]

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[iMuse97]

I think the wording of the poll stinks ,.. why?? Because it is allowed in many areas of the country.. regardless of the fact that it is in violation of the NEC... and no i did not vote "Allowed"

Please elaborate--"it is allowed" means
1. it is common practice and nobody says anything about it?
2. the AHJ knows it is being done and approves it?
3. local or state code amendments specifically describe the 14awg switch leg on a 20A OCPD and permit it?
4. or some other possibility that I can't think of?

 

[480sparky]

Please elaborate--"it is allowed" means
1. it is common practice and nobody says anything about it?
2. the AHJ knows it is being done and approves it?
3. local or state code amendments specifically describe the 14awg switch leg on a 20A OCPD and permit it?
4. or some other possibility that I can't think of?

My feeble memory seems to recall a member who stated his AHJ requires 14 switch legs.

Don't ask me to point a finger, though.

 

[mivey]

My feeble memory seems to recall a member who stated his AHJ requires 14 switch legs.

Don't ask me to point a finger, though.

Which member said that?

 

[M. D.]

Please elaborate--"it is allowed" means
1. it is common practice and nobody says anything about it?
2. the AHJ knows it is being done and approves it?
3. local or state code amendments specifically describe the 14awg switch leg on a 20A OCPD and permit it?
4. or some other possibility that I can't think of?

That is it exactly ,..what does allowed mean?

 

[iMuse97]

That is it exactly ,..what does allowed mean?

I'm going with my #1. It is common practice, that's the way we've always done it, and nobody calls anyone on it. --and for good measure, the switch is only rated for 15A so 20A can't get through.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Why would anyone do this ??

 

[Sierrasparky]

I'm going with my #1. It is common practice, that's the way we've always done it, and nobody calls anyone on it. --and for good measure, the switch is only rated for 15A so 20A can't get through.

With all due respect " because the Switch is 15 amp so 20 can't get through."
Is there some fuse you gots in your swiches. I don't care How long you've been doing this it's wrong.

 

[SEO]

I'm going with my #1. It is common practice, that's the way we've always done it, and nobody calls anyone on it. --and for good measure, the switch is only rated for 15A so 20A can't get through.

I would call you on it. Do you tap 14 to 12 for your receptacles and 14 to 12 for grounds as well?

 

[Sierrasparky]

I would call you on it. Do you tap 14 to 12 for your receptacles and 14 to 12 for grounds as well?

Don't see how a 6" piece of wire compares to a switch leg that can be 15'.
Besides I though Chicago does not allow Romex type wireing

 

[daleuger]

I hadn't even voted and went to do it and it said I did. I may possibly be an accidental yes and not even realize it. :roll:

 

[iMuse97]

You guys didn't see the whole discussion, apparently. Neither I nor M.D. approve of this wiring method. We are just discussing why is is "allowed" by any AHJ? and you didn't see my first or second post on this thread where I elaborated on the guys who suppose that a $.33 switch made in china somehow has a current-limiting feature built into it, as a safety measure for their shoddy wiring practices. And yes, I've never worked with Romex until about two years ago, and that was in the far hinterlands of Indiana, at least 60 miles from Chicago as the crow flies.

 

[Volta]

Haven't read the preceeding posts, sorry!

Haven't read the preceeding posts, sorry!

Of course not!



















Unless you define "switch leg" as the switched power leaving the device, installed on fixture wire "for connecting luminaires to the branch-circuit conductors supplying the luminaires." 402.10, allowed by 240.5(B)(2)(3).

 

[e57]

I don't see how you could read it that way.



If a conductor falls under one of the applications listed in Table 240.4(G), then it is immediately removed from the small conductor rule, by the small conductor rule's own language. 240.4(D) gave you permission to ignore itself in those specific applications.

I agree with George.

You see - I don't understand how either of you read it the way you do - to me the language is clear....

~ampacities specified in 310.15, unless permitted or required in 240.4(A) through (G).

I find nothing specifically permiting (as decribed in 240.4(D)) in any parts of the codes listed in (G), and the language 240.4 itself tells me that (D) is in addition to (G).... (D) is a requirement, (G) is a permisive, but as mentioned - nothing "specifically" permits or says that '240.4(D) shall not be applicable'.

I would call you on it. Do you tap 14 to 12 for your receptacles and 14 to 12 for grounds as well?

Yep - 250.122
Pretty much locks in the #14 on 15A, #12 on 20A, and #10 on 30~60A. So that too is a clincher IMO.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I can deal with a few guys that learned wrong things from a so called foreman and trusted him. But how does this get passed inspectors that should know far more than this. If we restart this pole and show who voted how i bet answers would change. Perhaps the 7 is just newbees and don't understand the hazzard.

 

[e57]

They may just have the hand on the chain... pulling it...

 

[quogueelectric]

Not to insult any of the fine inspectors on this forum an inspector is so much more likely to open a switch location because they dont have to bend over. Now before you club me to death this is just a casual observation upon many many inspections I have walked through.

 

[iMuse97]

I won't club you; I'm not an inspector, not related to an inspector, though I do know several fine ones. And besides, you're a long ways down the road from these parts--it would take me 14 hours on the road without stopping just to get me in your general neighborhood.

 

[iwire]

You see - I don't understand how either of you read it the way you do - to me the language is clear....

It seems your the only one that has an issue with this section, when that happens to me I try to re-think my position.

 

[iwire]

Have you found anything "specifically permitted" in any of the codes listed in 240.4(G) that says '240.4(D) shall not be applicable'?

We do not need anything in G telling us we can ignore D as D has already told us we can ignore D if the application is covered by G.