Does an area which is a small nook off of the kithcen in which the plans call a "breakfast room", need to be protected by an AFCI? What about a room in which the plans call a country kitchen, that includes an area to have a kitchen table to eat at? An inspector is telling me that if there is an eating area with aq table in any kitchen, it needs to be AFCI protected since it is a "similar area" to a dining room. Thoughts???
AFCI and room names
- Thread starter donniet
- Start date
- Status
rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
For the breakfast room or, breakfast "nook" as it's called around here, I could see AFI protection. I'm not sure what a "country kitchen" is, tho. Does it meet the definition of a kitchen? If not, & not knowing the layout, I would guess AFI there as well.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Hm-m-m-m. Curious distinction.
I occasionally work in small kitchen resets. A 10' x 8' kitchen will have a refir, sink and range with counter and the little half table against one wall that will permit a person to perch and wait for the timer to ring, or to keep the cook company. The table is hardly bigger than the bottom of two bags of groceries.
For that matter, the "table", in many cases, is a permanent counter top jutting out from the wall 18 or 24 inches. . . no legs, just attached to the wall without a base below the counter top.
Is this little 10' x 8' walled area actually two different areas? That is, a kitchen area and a dining-similar area?
I occasionally work in small kitchen resets. A 10' x 8' kitchen will have a refir, sink and range with counter and the little half table against one wall that will permit a person to perch and wait for the timer to ring, or to keep the cook company. The table is hardly bigger than the bottom of two bags of groceries.
For that matter, the "table", in many cases, is a permanent counter top jutting out from the wall 18 or 24 inches. . . no legs, just attached to the wall without a base below the counter top.
Is this little 10' x 8' walled area actually two different areas? That is, a kitchen area and a dining-similar area?
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
If you think of it as a habitable space, I think you'll do better.
Granted people might take shelter in the bathrooom or the utility room, habitable not so much...
both are covered by there own requirements anywas, i.e. the bathroom and the laundry circuit.
In a sun room, outer foyer, outer dining area, entrance causeway, any other goofy name thay can come up with... they got you!
Granted people might take shelter in the bathrooom or the utility room, habitable not so much...
both are covered by there own requirements anywas, i.e. the bathroom and the laundry circuit.
In a sun room, outer foyer, outer dining area, entrance causeway, any other goofy name thay can come up with... they got you!
Power Tech
Senior Member
- Location
- Lebec, California
That's my camper.:grin:
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I don't see the picnic table in 210.52.
ceb58
Senior Member
- Location
- Raeford, NC
I would say it doesn't because of 210.52 B 1. It says that dinning rooms and breakfast nooks can be supplied from the SABC which are GFCI protected.
Where are all SABCs required to be GFI-protected?
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
Well it was a new age vogue large kitchen and the overly large outer area but not a "dinning area" on the print, I really didn't have an leg to stand on!
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
I say it does require AFCI protection. Article 100 defines a kitchen and I do not think it meets that definition.
Ohio (2006 RCO) and the IRC (International Residential Code) call a kitchen a habitable space. So the habitable 'rule' does not apply if you are trying to make all habitable areas (spaces) AFCI protected.
Ohio (2006 RCO) and the IRC (International Residential Code) call a kitchen a habitable space. So the habitable 'rule' does not apply if you are trying to make all habitable areas (spaces) AFCI protected.
rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
'08 NEC 210.12(B) is specific to dining rooms & similar areas. To me, a breakfast nook is a similar area. Even if you feed the receps from the GFI prtected kitchen counter receps, the dining & nook receps will still need AFI protection.
- Status