Found old ceramic octagon

[frenchelectrican]

I have see few like that both in USA and France { little more common found in France than states are }

But to find like that with undamaged condition now that is pretty rare item to see that most case I useally see they are allready cracked one way or other.

Merci,Marc

 

[charlie]

Those are interesting Wayne. I told some friends that I had seen the same thing but after seeing the photos, I don't believe I have seen those before. Thanks for posting the photos.

 

[Mike01]

Splice

Splice

I was working with some we will call them seasoned electricians that kept refering to a splice with solder as a "western union splice" is this true and where could i find a pic. of something like this?

 

[hurk27]

I was working with some we will call them seasoned electricians that kept refering to a splice with solder as a "western union splice" is this true and where could i find a pic. of something like this?

Solder is not nessasary for a western union splice. it is one of the strongest splices by design.

See HERE

and read HERE

The splices found in the box were more of a soldered pigtail splice found HERE

 

[frenchelectrican]

Solder is not nessasary for a western union splice. it is one of the strongest splices by design.

See HERE

and read HERE

The splices found in the box were more of a soldered pigtail splice found HERE

He is correct that is very strong splice and from my early days when I start working as electrician I did ran into few like that even large one like 500KCM { 240mm?} now that is instering one to do that I know it is not easy to do it but it done before I know some of older guys in this forum may recalled to see large western union spice it pretty much universal all over the place I did see that alot in France as well.

Merci,Marc

 

[e57]

Porcilin 4/O - never seen one of those.... And the NM cable looks to be about right for 50's previously it would be rubber with string/twine insulation, kraft paper, cambric loom, and lead paint.... late 1940's post WW2. Thermoplastic would be 50's, and plastic jacket would be late 50's


On the topic of splices: The largest soldered splice I have ever seen was 5-500MCM taps to DC disconnects for four elevators. Still live DC service and metering... The building was pre-1906, and no-one knew how old it actually was - a fire after an earthquake here destroyed all records - but the elevators were some of the first Otis models. These taps were not in an enclosure and trussed up in a room as a buss from the service conductors. I had the pleasure of unwrapping and re-wrapping them to see if they were still intact - they were... Each conductor was splayed out, then lashed in on top of the others re-wound into one really lage wire, then an other outer lashing - then soldered and taped. It must have taken all day to heat up the mass of copper without burning it, and still get it hot enough for the solder to flow.... Maybe laddled the solder over and over... A dead art IMO... This was way before digital cameras - and wish I could go do it again just to get a picture this time....

 

[mivey]

Solder is not nessasary for a western union splice.

...if you have enough tension. Works great in an aerial span splice without solder (even fish wires), but in an attic with little maintained wire tension, I think the solder is needed.

 

[K8MHZ]

An inspector friend of mine was telling me about a call he went on while he was an electrician. He narrowed the problem down to an area between to boxes. Since the NM cable was stapled, a hole in the wall had to be inserted in order to examine the NM in question.

What was found was INSIDE the cable, one of the conductors had a Western Union splice in it and eventually failed. It was not soldered. If it had been, it would probably have never failed.

We discussed how it could have got there. One possibility was that an operator running the machine making the cable ran a reel out of one conductor and in order to finish the spool of cable grabbed another reel and spliced it. I guess he figured if it passed testing prior to shipment no one would ever notice.

 

[mivey]

An inspector friend of mine was telling me about a call he went on while he was an electrician. He narrowed the problem down to an area between to boxes. Since the NM cable was stapled, a hole in the wall had to be inserted in order to examine the NM in question.

What was found was INSIDE the cable, one of the conductors had a Western Union splice in it and eventually failed. It was not soldered. If it had been, it would probably have never failed.

We discussed how it could have got there. One possibility was that an operator running the machine making the cable ran a reel out of one conductor and in order to finish the spool of cable grabbed another reel and spliced it. I guess he figured if it passed testing prior to shipment no one would ever notice.

Probably a machine failure. They are continually splicing in new reels. They don't use one continuous reel per spool.

When they splice in a new reel, they use something similar to a WU splice. The automated machine is supposed to replace the mechanical splice with "nice" welded splice. I quote the nice because I have found what appeared to be a knot in a cable before and I cut it open to find a not-so-even welded splice.

 

[LarryFine]

One possibility was that an operator running the machine making the cable ran a reel out of one conductor and in order to finish the spool of cable grabbed another reel and spliced it.

I've found the same thing in the middle of a spool of #12 THHN/THWN.

 

[hurk27]

I have found crimp connectors inside of 10/2 before, and even sent a sample to UL, never heard about again.

 

[LarryFine]

I have found crimp connectors inside of 10/2 before . . .

At least it was insulated, but still . . . :roll:

 

[cadpoint]

Is the Black woven, I call is Black Tarred, is this the first production of combined ciruits, post - knob and tube ?

 

[hurk27]

I would say it was brought out while K&T was still in use, as you see many wall runs that was ran with it, just before they stopped using the K&T wiring, while older K&T will have K&T down the walls, but later K&T would have the cloth covered rubber insulated NM run down the walls to pick up plugs and switches, and for home runs.

I have seen some older K&T with BX in the place of the NM as wall runs.

but for the most part it was just the choice of the installer, at the time.

 

[chris500]

I have found crimp connectors inside of 10/2 before, and even sent a sample to UL, never heard about again.

That's interesting. I wonder how common it actually is to splice new reels/spools of wire, and how many of these splices go bad. I have run across a couple that have failed and likely countless others that haven't failed. I'm sure Southwire and other manufacturers have some data on how it is supposed to be done, and how the splices should never fail.

I recall one failure that I found about 14" above the panel before the wire went up inside a wall. It was the first factory splice that I had ever found and really made me wonder how I would ever find something like that if it were in the middle of a run somewhere that was buried in a wall.

 

[mivey]

That's interesting. I wonder how common it actually is to splice new reels/spools of wire, and how many of these splices go bad.

I would guess a lot of splices with very few failures. The detection equipment is very sensitive. I suspect the errors come in when a sensor fails and an operator messes up, or fails to react properly to the alarm.

When I was in the plant, the operators were constantly splicing in new reels of wire on the front end of the multi-strand cable. The single-strand is extruded, but gets spliced in as well.