Inspection failed - #14 on bedroom recepts

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2wheelinusa

Member
The city is Spencer, IA. I think this is the link if your interested. http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/index.php?book_id=416
I'm pretty much over it now. In fact, I'm changing my policy to just install #12 to all recepts so I don't have to worry about which city I'm in, etc. I still think the 8 recept per circuit thing is crazy, but rules are rules. With rural Iowa just acquiring the NEC, 2008 non the less, it has many of us local sparkies turned inside out. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a positive thing, especially for my business. It's just a struggle to convince some (most) of the farmers out in ten buck two that I have to have an inspector come out and inspect the job when I'm done with it. And to boot, take their last $25 from their bank account to pay him to do it. Some are still getting the local "jack of all trades" to slide in under the radar, but I think that will go on forever. It's going to be interesting for sure.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
jxofaltrds said:
Ohio did away with 'local rule' in 2006.

One code for the state.
Click to expand...
Doesn't look like that's gonna happen anytime soon in Iowa. From Iowa State Building Code:

CHAPTER 103 ELECTRICIANS AND ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS

103.29 POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS -- INSPECTIONS --
AUTHORITY OF POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS.
1. A political subdivision performing electrical inspections
prior to December 31, 2007, shall continue to perform such
inspections. After December 31, 2013, a political subdivision may
choose to discontinue performing its own inspections and permit the
board to have jurisdiction over inspections in the political
subdivision. If a political subdivision seeks to discontinue its own
inspections prior to December 31, 2013, the political subdivision
shall petition the board. On or after January 1, 2014, if a
unanimous vote of the board finds that a political subdivision's
inspections are inadequate by reason of misfeasance, malfeasance, or
nonfeasance, the board may suspend or revoke the political
subdivision's authority to perform its own inspections, subject to
appeal according to the procedure set forth in section 103.34 and
judicial review pursuant to section 17A.19. A political subdivision
not performing electrical inspections prior to December 31, 2007, may
make provision for inspection of electrical installations within its
jurisdiction, in which case it shall keep on file with the board
copies of its current inspection ordinances or resolutions and
electrical codes.
2. A political subdivision performing electrical inspections
pursuant to subsection 1 prior to December 31, 2007, may maintain a
different supervision ratio than the ratio of three apprentice
electricians and unclassified persons to one licensee specified in
section 103.15, subsection 3, but may not exceed that ratio. A
political subdivision which begins performing electrical inspections
after December 31, 2007, shall maintain the specified three-to-one
ratio unless the board approves a petition by the political
subdivision for a lower ratio. A political subdivision which
discontinues performing electrical inspections and permits the board
to have jurisdiction over inspections shall maintain the specified
three-to-one supervision ratio, and may not petition for a lower
ratio unless the political subdivision subsequently resumes
performing electrical inspections.
3. A political subdivision that performs electrical inspections
may set appropriate permit fees to pay for such inspections. A
political subdivision shall not require any person holding a license
from the board to pay any license fee or take any examination if the
person holds a current license issued by the board which is of a
classification equal to or greater than the classification needed to
do the work proposed. Any such political subdivision may provide a
requirement that each person doing electrical work within the
jurisdiction of such political subdivision have on file with the
political subdivision a copy of the current license issued by the
board or such other evidence of such license as may be provided by
the board.
4. A political subdivision is authorized to determine what work
may be performed by a class B licensee within the jurisdictional
limits of the political subdivision.
5. A political subdivision that performs electrical inspections
shall act as the authority having jurisdiction for electrical
inspections and for amending the national electrical code adopted by
the board pursuant to section 103.6 for work performed within the
jurisdictional limits of the political subdivision, provided those
inspections and amendments conform to the requirements of this
chapter. Any action by a political subdivision with respect to
amendments to the national electrical code shall be filed with the
board prior to enforcement by the political subdivision, and shall
not be less stringent than the minimum standards established by the
board by rule.
6. A political subdivision may grant a variance or interpret the
national electrical code in a manner which deviates from a standard
interpretation on an exception basis for a one-time installation or
planned installation so long as such a variance or interpretation
does not present an electrical hazard or danger to life or property.
Click to expand...
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
2wheelinusa said:
............. In fact, I'm changing my policy to just install #12 to all recepts so I don't have to worry about which city I'm in, etc. I still think the 8 recept per circuit thing is crazy, but rules are rules. ............
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be far cheaper to change your policy to checking who is going to inspect the work (if it's not the state) and finding out what local amendments there are before you bid the job?

If you blindly start wiring every house with #12 and no more than 8 receps on a circuit, you'll price yourself out of jobs outside the city of Spencer.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
mivey said:
Official amendments in Georgia are filed at the state level so everybody is supposed to be able to know what they are getting into. ECs are supposed to know this and should hear it from time to time at CE class.

Unofficial amendments are carried around in the inspector's head (or other convenient locations) and are not legally enforceable. If you don't want to follow the unofficial amendments: let the games begin.
Click to expand...

i don't follow local amendments not filed with the state.

sure it gets inspectors screaming sometimes, but there's nothing they can do but pass my job.

i have my own little fan club of inspectors that hate me. i'm such a jerk. ;)
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
jaylectricity said:
I think it's cute that you consider ANY place in Iowa "The Big City." :grin:
Click to expand...

Just don't talk like that with your mouth full!
Peasant_emotes_by_admx.gif
 
shermansfather

shermansfather

Member
Location
Northeast Ohio
Ohio and local rule

Ohio and local rule

jxofaltrds said:
Ohio did away with 'local rule' in 2006.

One code for the state.
Click to expand...

Can someone expand on this ? I'm an EC in Northeast Ohio where Cuyahoga county has about 60 suburbs, most with their own codified ordinances. I also work in adjoining counties where AHJ may be municipal or by county. I always
check local ordinance via Internet (like amlegal.com). I've only been tagged once, that was 8 years ago so I've never asked many questions. Have been following local rules blindly since 06'.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
shermansfather said:
Can someone expand on this ? I'm an EC in Northeast Ohio where Cuyahoga county has about 60 suburbs, most with their own codified ordinances. I also work in adjoining counties where AHJ may be municipal or by county. I always
check local ordinance via Internet (like amlegal.com). I've only been tagged once, that was 8 years ago so I've never asked many questions. Have been following local rules blindly since 06'.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, that statement is correct but not in its entirety.

The following are the pertinent ORC
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/504.13
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/505.75
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3781.01

What it amounts to is local jurisdictions can adopt standards which, subject to the state's approval, do not conflict with standards adopted by the state, or county, in order of precedence.

PS: not a legal interpretation
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Smart $ said:
AFAIK, that statement is correct but not in its entirety.

The following are the pertinent ORC
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/504.13
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/505.75
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3781.01

What it amounts to is local jurisdictions can adopt standards which, subject to the state's approval, do not conflict with standards adopted by the state, or county, in order of precedence.

PS: not a legal interpretation
Click to expand...

Agreed. When not in conflict. An Example shot down by RCAC was a building department said 200 amp was the minimum for a single family .This was in conflict with the 100 minimum in the NEC 230.79(C).

That said they could require a minimum 60,000 sf home in an area then the 100 amp would not apply. (load caculations)

It takes time but you can start reading here: http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/oh/st/OH-P-2005-000004.htm
 
Last edited:
shermansfather

shermansfather

Member
Location
Northeast Ohio
Smart $ said:
AFAIK, that statement is correct but not in its entirety.

The following are the pertinent ORC
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/504.13
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/505.75
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3781.01

What it amounts to is local jurisdictions can adopt standards which, subject to the state's approval, do not conflict with standards adopted by the state, or county, in order of precedence.

PS: not a legal interpretation
Click to expand...

jxofaltrds said:
Agreed. When not in conflict. An Example shot down by RCAC was a building department said 200 amp was the minimum for a single family .This was in conflict with the 100 minimum in the NEC 230.79(C).

That said they could require a minimum 60,000 sf home in an area then the 100 amp would not apply. (load caculations)

It takes time but you can start reading here: http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/oh/st/OH-P-2005-000004.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike the link is helpful. I am wondering if anyone in Ohio has challenged a local ordinance as being a conflict. Here are few cuts from some of our local authorities.

1. (from a village regarding underground residential service)
"The electrical contractor shall install code approved galvanized conduit of rigid type at a minimum burial depth of twenty-four inches below the finished grade."

2. (4 or 5 like this, although some are marked repealed)
"No more than four duplex receptacle outlets per circuit shall be installed on the required appliance branch circuits and no more than ten duplex receptacle outlets per circuit shall be installed on the required general lighting branch circuits."

3. (A few of these)
"(c) The minimum wire size for all branch circuits shall be #12 (AWG)"
and these
" Aluminum Wires. The use of aluminum wires in buildings in the City shall be prohibited. The only allowable use is for electric service lines, from the utility company mains to the electric meter.

4. Also I found a few with bans on SE cable, SER, no more than one NM cable in a bored hole, no more than 2 receps on a GFCI.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
shermansfather said:
Thanks Mike the link is helpful. I am wondering if anyone in Ohio has challenged a local ordinance as being a conflict. Here are few cuts from some of our local authorities.

1. (from a village regarding underground residential service)
"The electrical contractor shall install code approved galvanized conduit of rigid type at a minimum burial depth of twenty-four inches below the finished grade."

2. (4 or 5 like this, although some are marked repealed)
"No more than four duplex receptacle outlets per circuit shall be installed on the required appliance branch circuits and no more than ten duplex receptacle outlets per circuit shall be installed on the required general lighting branch circuits."

3. (A few of these)
"(c) The minimum wire size for all branch circuits shall be #12 (AWG)"
and these
" Aluminum Wires. The use of aluminum wires in buildings in the City shall be prohibited. The only allowable use is for electric service lines, from the utility company mains to the electric meter.

4. Also I found a few with bans on SE cable, SER, no more than one NM cable in a bored hole, no more than 2 receps on a GFCI.
Click to expand...

This is a perfect example of why local codes are absurd the vast majority of the time. :roll:
 
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