Bonding the copper plumbing in a dwelling.?

[jjdh]

I've seen this mentioned before this would be suppliment to the exact code requirements in the all the of Article 250, Right ?

Is it just more of a Local AHJ thing? Regional practices?

As Mr. Kennedy stated above the metal water piping SYSTEM requires bonding.

Water heaters, softeners, filters, contain di-electric breaks, just the sams as a repair of a metallic piping system with pvc pipe causes a break in the piping system continuity. Thus the requirement for a hot to cold "bonding jumper". Hot to cold is a misnomer, all breaks require a "bonding jumper".

 

[curt swartz]

As Mr. Kennedy stated above the metal water piping SYSTEM requires bonding.

Water heaters, softeners, filters, contain di-electric breaks, just the sams as a repair of a metallic piping system with pvc pipe causes a break in the piping system continuity. Thus the requirement for a hot to cold "bonding jumper". Hot to cold is a misnomer, all breaks require a "bonding jumper".

So you are saying that a bonding jumper must be placed at every fitting and fixture in the system? What is the difference between a water heater and a mixing valve?

 

[LarryFine]

What is the difference between a water heater and a mixing valve?

Boy, I'm never sending you to the supply house! :grin:

 

[benaround]

As Mr. Kennedy stated above the metal water piping SYSTEM requires bonding.

Water heaters, softeners, filters, contain di-electric breaks, just the sams as a repair of a metallic piping system with pvc pipe causes a break in the piping system continuity. Thus the requirement for a hot to cold "bonding jumper". Hot to cold is a misnomer, all breaks require a "bonding jumper".

I'll have to disagree with you on this, per the substantiation in 'M D's' post, once a metallic

piping system gets a pvc repair, it is no longer a system it is just random peices of pipe, the

jumpers are only required if you have a 'metallic piping system'. If any of these random

pieces of pipe are 'likely to become energized' the EGC of that circuit is allowed as the bond

 

[benaround]

What is the difference between a water heater and a mixing valve?

About $400.00 for a cheap one !

 

[iwire]

Thus the requirement for a hot to cold "bonding jumper". Hot to cold is a misnomer, all breaks require a "bonding jumper".

That is simply not true, look at the panel statements provided above.

 

[jxofaltrds]

That is simply not true, look at the panel statements provided above.

Bob

Are you saying that the hot/cold is not required? If so read the last paragraph in 250.104(A)(1) the handbook.

I agree that not all breaks are included in this paragraph.

 

[electricmanscott]

Bob

Are you saying that the hot/cold is not required? If so read the last paragraph in 250.104(A)(1) the handbook.

I agree that not all breaks are included in this paragraph.

I won't answer for Bob but are you talking about the code section or the commentary?

The commentary argues in favor of Bob.

There is no specific requirement to install a bonding jumper between the hot and cold water pipes.

 

[iwire]

Bob

Are you saying that the hot/cold is not required? If so read the last paragraph in 250.104(A)(1) the handbook.

I agree that not all breaks are included in this paragraph.

I am saying not all breaks require a jumper, which was what the poster had said.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I won't answer for Bob but are you talking about the code section or the commentary?

The commentary argues in favor of Bob.

There is no specific requirement to install a bonding jumper between the hot and cold water pipes.

Commentary. It does say required. It also say some jugdement must be exercised.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I am saying not all breaks require a jumper, which was what the poster had said.

Thanxs. Just wanted to clarify this one.

 

[electricmanscott]

Commentary. It does say required. It also say some jugdement must be exercised.

Where does it say a bonding jumper shall installed btween hot and cold water pipes?

 

[iwire]

Where does it say a bonding jumper shall installed btween hot and cold water pipes?

Mike I would like to know this as well.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Where does it say a bonding jumper shall installed btween hot and cold water pipes?

Says "is required".

The first line of the last paragraph in the commentary.

 

[electricmanscott]

Says "is required".

The first line of the last paragraph in the commentary.

Aside from the fact that commentary is not code, can you display the sentence you are reffering to here?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Aside from the fact that commentary is not code, can you display the sentence you are reffering to here?

"Where it cannot be reasonably concluded that the hot and cold water pipes are reliably bonded through mechanical connections, an electrical bonding jumper is required to ensure that this connection is made."

IMHO the commentary helps me explain a code reference. Or reinforces what I have already interpreted that it means.

 

[electricmanscott]

"Where it cannot be reasonably concluded that the hot and cold water pipes are reliably bonded through mechanical connections, an electrical bonding jumper is required to ensure that this connection is made.".

Can you give me an instance where you would then have to bond the hot and cold water pipes to each other? I have never come across one in 25 years.

IMHO the commentary helps me explain a code reference. Or reinforces what I have already interpreted that it means.

I agree with that.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Can you give me an instance where you would then have to bond the hot and cold water pipes to each other? I have never come across one in 25 years.

Yes. Teflon tape on fittings. Pipe dope. Pex supply lines from shut offs to a faucet.

Also remember that connections to showers and the such cannot be verified on the final.

I think that this is a 'reasonable' interpretation. I also, in Ohio, have to look at this from the RCO:

1. Performance. Establish such requirements, in terms of performance objectives for the use intended. Further, the rules shall consider the following:
1.1. The impact that the state residential building code may have upon the health, safety and welfare of the public;
1.2. The economic reasonableness of the residential building code;
1.3. The technical feasibility of the residential building code; and
1.4. The financial impact that the residential building code may have on the public?s ability to purchase affordable housing.

 

[LarryFine]

Can you give me an instance where you would then have to bond the hot and cold water pipes to each other? I have never come across one in 25 years.

Teflon tape on fittings. Pipe dope.

I bet neither of those effectively insulate a metal-to-metal threaded connection.

 

[Johnmcca]

Good point, or why bond gas piping?