Lay-Ins - replace ballast or fixture?

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Ragin Cajun

Senior Member
Location
Upstate S.C.
We are working on plans for several schools where they want to upgrade existing Lay-in fluorescent fixtures. The fixtures are about 20 years old and in "good shape."

They want to replace the magnetic ballasts and T40 lamps with electronic ballasts and T8 lamps.

What has been your experience considering labor, materials, etc. of the above vs simply replacing the fixtures with new ones?

We're looking at hundreds of fixtures.


Thanks,

RC
 
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Ragin Cajun

Senior Member
Location
Upstate S.C.
What abut the "total" cost of replacing the ballasts and lamps vs the whole thing?

I know about the age stuff, I need something to compare for the school to see.

Thanks,


RC
 
jimport

jimport

Senior Member
Location
Outside Baltimore Maryland
Occupation
Master Electrician
Not needing to remove the support wires, disposal of old fixtures, debris from above the fixtures falling into a finished space are all reasons to continue to use the old housings and just change the ballast. Also less material to store and move. No cartons to dispose of.

However, better reflectivity by being clean and bright paint, better design on the reflector would be reasons to do a complete change out.

I want to say that we would doing ballast and bulb changouts under 15 minutes per. I doubt that we could have had that pace changing the whole fixture.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Fixture replacment is better.

New lens, sockets, clean. All things you don't have to worry about if you kept the old fixtures.
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I'm in this boat as well, I would think that your going to have about a 25% total breakdown in the existing fixtures, you might well run into a lot of toasted circuit wires. I can see some lens framing completely failing and bending and falling apart, much less falling from the sky due to try'n to be serviced.

The lenses will be breaking up try'n to get them out to be cleaned up...

Dollar for dollar the new would really be the way to go, I can only think that certain rooms like any vocational or home ek. Rooms would really be worked over. A few new there will look like a bad checker game in the ceiling.
Another electrical consideration is that you might not have a ground wire in the circuit, what then?
Are your going to specify a certain connector through out if no ground wire?

You also might pay attention to standing AHJ requirements of night light and emergency ballast / egress requirements for your schools!
In twenty years alot has changed!
 
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K2X

Senior Member
Location
Colorado Springs
When I was doing retrofits the piece rate, (to the installers), was about $5 to gut the fixture, put in new centering brackets with new tombstones, new e ballast, new reflector and new lamps. That was a 4 to 2 conversion which was 80% of what we did and the average guy could do 40 a night, some could do 80. Then the whold crew would team up one night and we would change all the lenses for $1.50 each.

At the volume we were doing the boss could get ballasts for $10 to $12 each, brackets toombstones and reflector kit for about $7 each, the lenses for about $7, and get the lamps for $1 each. Proper disposal of pcb ballasts and lamps was $1 to $2 per fixture. So that was about $35 hard costs.

Our piece rate on new fixture installs was about $25 each. Sometimes we had to add support/grid wires where as on existing we didn't have to.
 
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LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Cavie said:
The new t-8 ballast came with tombstones attached.
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Interesting. I've seen fixtures come that way, not just replacement ballasts.

Is there any reason existing ones can't be used, as long as you join both wires? (To everyone, not just Cavie)
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
LarryFine said:
Is there any reason existing ones can't be used, as long as you join both wires? (To everyone, not just Cavie)
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No reason, but after 20 years of baking with constant usage that you would expect in a school, they are probably nice and brittle and ready to fall apart.

I've noticed that new fixtures often come with "tombsones" made of a plastic thermoset material rather than the old brittle bakelite ones. They still break but they don't fall to pieces like the bakelite ones do.
 
Cavie

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
LarryFine said:
Interesting. I've seen fixtures come that way, not just replacement ballasts.

Is there any reason existing ones can't be used, as long as you join both wires? (To everyone, not just Cavie)
Click to expand...

Old wore out and just plain junk after 20 years of daily use.
 
R

rwade0700

Member
Location
Albany, NY
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If the fixtures are 20 years old , they are ready for replacement. By installing new fixtures you will assure that you are using a newer technology with better photometrics for a better and more effective lighting layout. Using the proper new fixtures will lower the cost of maintenace and achieve energy savings. Even more savings can come from the use of occupancy and/or vacancy sensors or other harvesting controls. There may also be a financial benefit to installer or consumer for installation of new components VS. retrofit of existing lighting due to federal or state tax credits or rebates for energy efficiency.
 
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