Estimating

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Morexod

Morexod

Member
Location
Seattle, WA
Hello, I am working on estimate for a public project. I have to come with a cost for an utility trench 280 L.F. long, 8" wide and 48" deep. I came up with the number using RS Means cost data book. Including a backfill and cost of renting equipment (Chain Trencher) the final number is $470.00. Is it too low?
Thanks
 
dduffee260

dduffee260

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Morexod said:
Hello, I am working on estimate for a public project. I have to come with a cost for an utility trench 280 L.F. long, 8" wide and 48" deep. I came up with the number using RS Means cost data book. Including a backfill and cost of renting equipment (Chain Trencher) the final number is $470.00. Is it too low?
Thanks
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Yes, don't forget to take into account your men on site. I think we are $1.80 a foot to trench and $1.00 for backfill. If we have to cross lines then it is figured additional. Something like this I would say $784 trenching and $400 labor for this area. One of the worst things you can do is lowball a digging job. Remember you are digging almost the length of a football field.
 
S

satcom

Senior Member
dduffee260 said:
Yes, don't forget to take into account your men on site. I think we are $1.80 a foot to trench and $1.00 for backfill. If we have to cross lines then it is figured additional. Something like this I would say $784 trenching and $400 labor for this area. One of the worst things you can do is lowball a digging job. Remember you are digging almost the length of a football field.
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He is trying to use Means raw data with time and motion estimates, we use actuals data, which is more like your pricing.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
dduffee260 said:
Yes, don't forget to take into account your men on site. I think we are $1.80 a foot to trench and $1.00 for backfill. If we have to cross lines then it is figured additional. Something like this I would say $784 trenching and $400 labor for this area. One of the worst things you can do is lowball a digging job. Remember you are digging almost the length of a football field.
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If you use the numbers in the OP and multipy to find the area of the dig, one comes up with ~ 748 CuFt so you still only doing it for a $1.05 a CuFt... negating the labor charge... I understand what your maths says, I'm just saying... :)

If I'm missing something correct me please.
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
If you are going to use a "national" price book like RS Means thats fine, but just step back out of the picture for a moment when something maybe doesn't work out quite right with the extended price. Think it thru. 280 ft of 4 ft deep trench for under 500 bucks? Nope, no way Jose.
 
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wawireguy

Senior Member
How are you going to dig 4' down and keep it 8" wide? It's going to collapse on you unless it's pure clay or some really hard dirt. And are there any obstructions you have to dig around? Utility lines of any kind? If there is anything in there that you can't tear up you are going to have to really slow down in those areas. $470 seems very low.. How many days are figuring in for your equipment rental? What if you hit some obstructions and have to dig a second day? Also are you renting a bobcat to back fill it?
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
macmikeman said:
If you are going to use a "national" price book like RS Means thats fine, but just step back out of the picture for a moment when something maybe doesn't work out quite right with the extended price. Think it thru. 280 ft of 4 ft deep trench for under 500 bucks? Nope, no way Jose.
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Agreed, National Est. comes up with over $2900.00 for trenching 12"x 48" x 280' using a labor burden of $35.00 per hr. But there are other factors to consider as others have posted, what type soil, (sand,clay,rock) any thing in the way ( other elect.,phone, water, sewer) and how will you back fill, ( hand, riding trencher with blade, other equipment)

Now from my experience in my area knowing the soil type I can hire some one to do it for $3.00 per ft. But that is clear digging with no back fill. Which works out to $840.00. So with that in mind you are tooooo... low.
 
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tyha

Senior Member
Location
central nc
I dont know what kind of company you are running or estimating for but the first thing you need to do is throw that rs means out the window and invest in a REAL system. RS Means is cost data not estimating.
 
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topper

Member
What about compaction? I would expect a public project to have a spec. I use an excavator that sends me a mini with a compaction plate. We always pass compaction test, never have extra soil to remove unless we partially sand fill. Assuming that he could dig and I could install in a day, I would plug his rate in for the day. Without obstructions this would be a half day job for most of the operators they send me.
 
K

Kdog76

Senior Member
Location
The Dairyland State
topper said:
Without obstructions this would be a half day job for most of the operators they send me.
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How about a digger's hotline call, and time spent on the job ensuring there are no obstructions?
How about the labor, fuel, and machine costs associated with this "half day" job that the " operators" would send you? What "operators?" are you referring to here? Does this half-day job include backfill? I am thinking more then a half day job to dig a 280' trench 4 foot down. Don't know your "operator's cost's" but if they can do all that in 4 hours let me know, I'd like some stock in that company: grin:.
Realistically, you got to know the soil conditions, obstructions, machine rental costs & labor costs involved OR the cost to sub it out.
 
Dnkldorf

Dnkldorf

Senior Member
Call a guy in your area that runs a backhoe.

He could dig it faster with a thin bucket, than you could with a rented trencher.

Get landscapers to fill and finish. (if needed)

Are you required to tamp during fill? This gets missed on bids.
 
T

topper

Member
Kdog76 said:
How about a digger's hotline call, and time spent on the job ensuring there are no obstructions?
How about the labor, fuel, and machine costs associated with this "half day" job that the " operators" would send you? What "operators?" are you referring to here? Does this half-day job include backfill? I am thinking more then a half day job to dig a 280' trench 4 foot down. Don't know your "operator's cost's" but if they can do all that in 4 hours let me know, I'd like some stock in that company: grin:.
Realistically, you got to know the soil conditions, obstructions, machine rental costs & labor costs involved OR the cost to sub it out.
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By operator, I mean the person that the excavation company sends with the machine that they own, fuel, etc. They also call in the locates and do all of the digging. Yes in the soil we typically encounter they can dig and backfill 300 feet in a half day. Notice I said that I would include his rate for a full day to cover any unknown conditions that might be encountered. Maybe I should have added that the price I would include would be much higher than 470.00. I think they bill me $100.00 and hour for a mini and one man. In town, there is no travel time, but I have used them 1.5 hrs out of town and am charged travel time.
 
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ITO

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Public Project right?

Read your specs, depending on what you call a ?public project? the general conditions can be very onerous. The $470 may not even cover your paperwork.

1) Insurance.
2) Workman?s Comp.
3) Bond. (Probably not for a job this size but check anyway)
4) Wage Scale, with certified payroll.
5) Drug testing.
6) Trench Safety Plan. (Sealed by an engineer)
7) De-watering plan.
8) Submittal (if you furnish any material like base, sand or clean fill).
9) One Call (Utility location)
10) Spoils removal (if you have to furnish clean fill)
11) Tamping
12) Then after you are done, you wait 60 days to get paid.
 
iMuse97

iMuse97

Senior Member
Location
Chicagoland
What is going in the trench?
How fast can it be installed?
And, therefore, how soon can it be backfilled?

You have the operator and equipment for a one day charge.
You have the guys installing.
You have the tamping.
You have the prevailing wage.
You have your tamping equipment.
You have locates & possible obstructions (I couldn't bid a price without this knowledge).
Water problems; sump, etc.

This could be a 5000.00 trench, depending on what you are putting in it.
I realize that may be a different part of the pricing.

And like ITO says, you wait for the money. Make it worth your while.
 
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