Hardware.

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brian john

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
Does anyone know if there is a UL requirement or any standards on hardware that should be utilized in terminating connections in switchboards?
 
brian john

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
No the grade of the bolts utilized.

I have and have had all the recommended torque requirements. We have a job were the engineer after the fact is stating that only Grade 5 hardware can be utilized for electrical termination made in the field and of course he is slandering our work based on this.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I don't know of any rules, but I won't use anything other than grade 5 because the most of the common hardware available around here is the cheap imported stuff that is not likely to be in conformance with any standard.
However it looks like that even the lower grade bolts are suitable for the torque values normally specified for electrical work based on the standard torque values shown in this table.
 
ohmhead

ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
brian john said:
No the grade of the bolts utilized.

I have and have had all the recommended torque requirements. We have a job were the engineer after the fact is stating that only Grade 5 hardware can be utilized for electrical termination made in the field and of course he is slandering our work based on this.
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Well ive only used grade 5 bolts in gear or transformers but now that you brought this subject up ive looked on the web and iam interested in this Brian ?

America standards on bolts nothing .

Engineering handbooks nothing .

Reading a little article in ECM mag on bolts nothing .

Still looking if i find it ill let ya know but i did see grade 2 grade 5 grade 8 are standard in the electrical work thats the general issue .
I got that from instruction manuals for gear which i save after each job they state that .


Someone said that the bolt is the grade number but you can use a different nut that doesnt make since to me most of our specs on jobs we do have grade 5 on the hardware .
 
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cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
He might have you based on the markings on the bolts, themselves.

There has been posted a link or the chart itself as to the bolt markings, and there represention of a correct application.

Where's that listed in the Electrical Spec's? But seems late in the Game...

Note, (in the link) that in General you meeting the PSI, while it is a compress application of a nut and bolt one is still near matching the tensile strength of Steel.

I was going to go into a ASTM statement but the SAE was just linked.

But basicilly is comes to to how the composition and materials are tested to obtain there individual listings...
 
ohmhead

ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
Well from the MCraw & Hill Electromechanical design handbook .

Plain carbon steel fasteners should not be used on copper to copper bus systems or electrical terminal connections that carry 2000 amps .

The use of austenitic stainless steel or high strength bronze everdur bolts is required to prevent hots spots by induction heating due to large circulating currents .

Alu to alu connections should be made using stainless steel or high strength alu alloy fasteners for high pressure joints grade 5 or 8 fasteners .

although grade 2 fasteners are often used in common joints of less than 2 bars thick . ect ect ect
 
SG-1

SG-1

Senior Member
Location
Ware Shoals, South Carolina
I have been with switchgear for nearly 30 years now and all hardware is grade 5 unless everdur is spec by the customer for use on the bus joints. Does the switchboard instructions have any recomendations ?
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
brian john said:
We have a job were the engineer after the fact is stating that only Grade 5 hardware can be utilized for electrical termination made in the field and of course he is slandering our work based on this.
Click to expand...

Have you asked him for the documents supporting his claim? Surely, he must have something to back it up besides his mouth....
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
I am not aware of requirements that specifically mention types of bolts.
If there is a specification, I am sure you would be aware of it.


I will say that the torque value itself would limit the type(s) of bolts. Whichever bolt type(s) match or supercede the the torque value stated would in my mind be sufficient.

All I can say after that, is to check your bolt types to the torque values stated and show the engineer.
 
ohmhead

ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
Well on one job we had a problem with wire nuts the specs called for the old rubber coated red type scotchlock type.

Well these red scotchlocks are not in production anymore you cant get them but only if you find a supplier who still has them in stock?

we submitted the standard ideal wire nut we installed these thur out the buildings this was a new high school job thousands of wire nuts were in place work completed .

We didnt get our approved submittals back on time by the engineer as usual we ordered our wire nuts as the red rubber scotchlocks were not easy to come by .

Then electrical inspector read the specs this is now there scope he read the job specs and they were never approved so we were told to take the ideal wire nuts out asap.

We had to special order red scotchlocks and install them only after a month of paper work and letters to the engineer who would not approve even now knowing that no one makes these anymore .

We sent him a letter from the manufacturer of non production he would not listen .

Some times its all about power trips with engineers they need to get out and do some work with us electricians and then lets see what they can use or do then.

Formulas and computer programs dont work in the real world of electrical work its nice to be behind a desk all day but try climbing up on a 14 foot ladder and changing out thousands of wire nuts to a scotchlock type that has no real benefit is lots of fun and a waste of time .

Of all the books ive been thur its a fine line on bolts and nuts and i dont think induction is a bigg issue but they say it is steel is steel were only talking a electrical joint it needs to expand and contract a little .


Theres lots of bolts and nuts out there installed before case hard bolts were made and used in this trade and there still working fine .
 
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brian john

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
We had a spec that called for all painted surfaces to be waxed with two coats of a DuPont type car wax, the year was 1983 (or there around). We could not locate this wax anywhere, The inspector refused to accept any other type of wax and told us no other contractor had ever questioned the wax, they followed the specs.

We contacted DuPont and that wax had gone out of production in 1952 or 1954. They wrote a letter stating this and noting that the car waxes they marketed today were far superior to any of their 1950 products. The inspector was dumbfounded.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
brian john said:
We had a spec that called for all painted surfaces to be waxed with two coats of a DuPont type car wax, the year was 1983 (or there around). We could not locate this wax anywhere, The inspector refused to accept any other type of wax and told us no other contractor had ever questioned the wax, they followed the specs.

We contacted DuPont and that wax had gone out of production in 1952 or 1954. They wrote a letter stating this and noting that the car waxes they marketed today were far superior to any of their 1950 products. The inspector was dumbfounded.
Click to expand...
I certainly believe 1/2 of that.










The inspector was dumbfounded. :grin:
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
brian john said:
We had a spec that called for all painted surfaces to be waxed with two coats of a DuPont type car wax, the year was 1983 (or there around). We could not locate this wax anywhere, The inspector refused to accept any other type of wax and told us no other contractor had ever questioned the wax, they followed the specs.

We contacted DuPont and that wax had gone out of production in 1952 or 1954. They wrote a letter stating this and noting that the car waxes they marketed today were far superior to any of their 1950 products. The inspector was dumbfounded.
Click to expand...

I hate snipe hunts.....
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
brian john said:
... We have a job were the engineer after the fact is stating that only Grade 5 hardware can be utilized for electrical termination made in the field and of course he is slandering our work based on this.
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I don't know of any "standards", but according to Burndy's Connector Theory 2007 publication, galvanized steel don't even make the recommended hardware list for combinations of copper-copper, copper-aluminum, and aluminum-aluminum bolted connections. Only silicon bronze, stainless steel, and aluminum hardware make the list. GS hardware does make the list for copper or aluminum to steel connections, though, but no grade of hardware is specified.

I've searched for a copy of the publication on the fci burndy website to no avail. Also, its file size is too large to attach here, so if you PM me with your email address I'll send it to you as an attachment.
 
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