UL Service Equipment Listings vs. 2008 NEC Definition Omission

Status
Not open for further replies.

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I'm curious how the omission of the "Lighting and Appliance" panel from the 2008 NEC effects the "Service Equipment" listing of panels for which a dependency on that definition was documented? For example, if a panel was listed as "Service Equipment", except when used as a "Lighting and Appliance" panel (and referencing the NEC for that definition), what does that mean for the listing when being installed under the 2008 NEC? Let's assume that the manufacturer has not issued a statement that provides an answer to this question.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
It would be my opinion that the listing was based on the definition that was in the 2005 code and that you would have to use that definition for the application of that panel.
 
I would think that the industry will "catch up" with this very soon. The manufacturers are still designating the panels as listed as suitable for service equipment, when they are suitable.
The main difference is, there will soon be no more "lighting and appliance" panels.
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
It would be my opinion that the listing was based on the definition that was in the 2005 code and that you would have to use that definition for the application of that panel.

Thanks - that was easy, right?

In general I haven't seen that the panel instructions indicate which version of NEC it is listed against. Presumably one would take the most recent that had the definition - the 2005?

Is this a general rule - that the version of the NEC that was in effect when a product was listed is the one that is used for determining the applicability of the listing? That would seem reasonable, though possibly somewhat confusing. In this case it may be obvious because the definitions have been removed, but what about cases where articles are modified?

This would also seem to be somewhat of a concern if new NEC requirements would cause a panel (or other equipment) to not be listed for a given application, but since the panel was listed under a previous NEC where such an application was allowed, it would be allowed under the current cycle?

Is there some kind of "more permissive" or "less permissive" rule that may come in to play? For example, in this case if there is a restriction that one might argue doesn't apply under 2008, but did apply when the panel was listed, that restriction would hold over to the application under 2008 - not the more permissive 2008 allowance. However, if 2008 had added a restriction that wasn't present in 2005, then the 2008 restriction would apply?
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I would think that the industry will "catch up" with this very soon. The manufacturers are still designating the panels as listed as suitable for service equipment, when they are suitable.
The main difference is, there will soon be no more "lighting and appliance" panels.

So, for example, for MLO panels, where they were previously listed as service equipment if having less than six handles and not used as a "lighting and appliance" panel, which way do you think they will they go? Strike the "and not used as a lighting and appliance panel", or strike the listing as service equipment altogether?
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I use the last paragraph in Section 90.4 as guidance when encountering this matter. While it doesn't exact fit with this specific instance, it's about the same idea.
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I use the last paragraph in Section 90.4 as guidance when encountering this matter. While it doesn't exact fit with this specific instance, it's about the same idea.

Interesting - that would seem to suggest that the use of such panels listed using the 2005 definitions would be permitted, but only if so approved by the AHJ?
 

hurk27

Senior Member
It seems some manufactures are already leaning toward treating that all panels used as service panels must be protected, I noticed that Midwest has now rearranged there meter main which includes 4 spaces extra for loads outside of a trailer or building, they used to feed from the meter to the main lugs feeding the buss with the 100 amp breaker feeding the trailer, but now they back feed thru the 100 amp breaker and the trailer connects to the main lugs, this also places the other breakers on the load side of the 100 amp.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top