Location of receptacles for gas ranges

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e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
'Recept behind fridge'
iwire said:
No ... and yes I think that is a violation.

~

I don't think I have all the answers, I think the code is vague here.

If I have an electric range without a drawer the NEC seems to feel the disconnect would not be accessible.
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I think the code is rather clear - it is some of us that close our eyes to the meaning and purpose of it. If not for ease and benefit of installation, or possibly just some sort of traditional 'we always did it that way' mantra.

iwire said:
No pdf from a manufacturer is going to change the NEC.:)
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Pdf's from manufacturers are littered with poor or out-dated code compliance. And many put it on us - the "qualified Electrician" to sort it out. But some of us don't - and rely on the instructions as if they were compliant - or code in of themselves.

Sure some ranges have an access hatch through drawers, or in one case I am aware of a removable panel in the back of an oven - but most do not. Yet they send out instructions for locating the receptacle in places where they are not accessible.... And if they are the disconnecting means - many of us close our eyes to it, and don't install a compliant switch or breaker lock, if applicable.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
e57 said:
'Recept behind fridge'I think the code is rather clear - it is some of us that close our eyes to the meaning and purpose of it. If not for ease and benefit of installation, or possibly just some sort of traditional 'we always did it that way' mantra.
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So behind an entertainment center?:grin:

I think it is unclear because the NEC should set practical limits on disconnecting means requirements.
 
glene77is

glene77is

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
LarryFine said:
So, where's the accessible disco for the refrigerator? Did he want that one moved, also? ;)

I'd slap a breaker lockout tab on the breaker before I'd relocate the receptacle, if his decision was upheld in appeal.
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Larry,
That is cool with me.
But, in my area,
the AHJ would follow you around the county,
making nit-picky inspections.
I've been told that
"if the inspector ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!"

I suppose that the discussion is only between us guys.
:)
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
glene77is said:
But, in my area, the AHJ would follow you around the county, making nit-picky inspections.
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If you're suggesting kowtowing to an inspector because you're afraid of reprisal, there's already something wrong.

I never challange a decision unless I'm sure, I'm always polite when I do, and I've never lost such a challenge. ;)
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
iwire said:
So behind an entertainment center?:grin:

I think it is unclear because the NEC should set practical limits on disconnecting means requirements.
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If y,ou mean a bolted in rack system, and or behind furnature that take riggers to move - then yes. And I would agree the code does not spell it out - but there are those who think they are not going to be the sucker pulling out a range, fridge or ET center who are happy to look the other way.
 
W

wasasparky

Senior Member
For 422.33(B) to exist, the cord and plug for the range would have to be considered inaccessible...but that is not the case - it is accessible...

To me, the cord and plug is OK for either type of range.

422.33(B) is merely confirming something we already knew from 422.30(A)
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
M. D. said:
e57 ,.. I'm sure it's me ,. but I've lost you . Could you sum up your position for me ?
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You mean the accessibility of disconnecting means? While it is not specifically "my" position - it is one that I live under as the interpretation of it is very common here to be: If something requires dis-assembly, or is too heavy for someone to move without damage (or risk of damage), or injury - that the disconnecting means is not accessible. And yes - I tend to agree on the point. Imagine say a stove or oven requiring servicing, and the means of disconnecting it may be a poorly marked panel - you think you have the right one off - but you don't. Or it may be tapped? (who knows) So you start opening it up or moving it out, and you get 240 across the heart and are now dead on the floor... How does one disconnect and lock something off (in some cases required within sight of the unit) without moving it, or disassembling it? Is not the point of having the disconnecting means to disconnect it before you work on it, or remove it?

On a simular note: What about AC units with the disconnect mounted to the unit? I have seen some that required removal of the disconnect itself to gain access inside it.... How does one remove the unit with the disconnect mounted to it?
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
e57 said:
On a simular note: What about AC units with the disconnect mounted to the unit? I have seen some that required removal of the disconnect itself to gain access inside it.... How does one remove the unit with the disconnect mounted to it?
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You point to the second paragraph of 440.14 and say "Gotta move it."
 
M. D.

M. D.

Senior Member
e57 said:
....If something requires dis-assembly, or is too heavy for someone to move without damage (or risk of damage), or injury - that the disconnecting means is not accessible. And yes - I tend to agree on the point....
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Thanks. I'm glad this is not the definition of accessible. Risk of damage , or injury ?? Every time I bend over there's risk of both:)
 
L

lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
charlie b said:
That's the one. Thanks, Chris.

Now back to the original question. As long as the outlet is within 6 feet of the range (and it obviously is), there is no NEC reason to reject the installation.

That said, however, I had to have a plumber install a gas line to serve our stove, when we bought the house. The instructions that came with the stove were very clear about where the gas line and the electrical outlet had to be. There is a clear space in the back of the stove, about 12 inches off the floor, and about 6 inches from the wall. The receptacle outlet was already in that area, but I had to give the plumber the limits of where he could put the gas line and valve.
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Mine at home has a 2-1/2" hole through the floor under/behind the stove where the CSST gas line and power cord are connected in the basement. Bad?
 
L

lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
jaylectricity said:
So you're plugged into a receptacle on the other side of the floor? Yeah...that's bad.
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I'm not plugged into the receptacle ... but my stove is! :D

electricmanscott said:
Not compliant maybe, but bad? Why?
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I don't see why it is bad. It would be easy to fix, except I don't think that there is enough room behind their to stub up the gas and surface mount the box to the cabinet. It is a surfacemount slide-in stove in an island.

In my opinion it is even more accesible. Go downstairs to unplug or disconnect. You don't have to even pull the stove out.

What is done is done though...
 
P

prh1700

Member
Location
edgewater, md
Just a question that I am not sure is even relevant. Does the location of the receptacle have anything to do with the supply point for the gas? Is there a reference in the gas code that would drive the receptacle location?

And how do you get the icons to go at the end of a sentence instead of way up there?
 
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