Scheduling issues and what to do

[cruzJD]

Were currently working 2 large jobs one is a week ahead and the other is 3 weeks behind. Both GC’s want more people on the job. I’m sure I know what I want to do but would like other people thoughts.

#1 is 3 weeks behind because of other subs. Were chasing other subs through the building and there are other subs chasing us. 2 GC checks have bounced in the last month. GC comes up with a new rule every week before he will write the check; this week was all accounts for the job must have a zero balance before being paid. Currently have 3 two man crews on the job. Getting paid for down time.
I have worked for this company a bunch of times and this GC a few times. There jobs have always run much smother. After talking to others the whole company is getting like this.

#2 is 8 days ahead of schedule and was told today that if I don’t get more men on the job I will be slowing it down soon. GC pays twice a week and must have invoices that shows you owe less than $5,000 for that job. Currently have 2 two man crews, a lone ranger a few days a week, and I show up and “help” when I have time.
Out of state company just opened up an office in town. This is the first job I have worked for them. I have a second job with this company starting in a few weeks. I have been asked to bid on 2 other jobs they have lined up.


Worked a few Saturdays on last minute for “we have to have this done now”.

I need to get 2 more people on job #2. I feel that no mater what I’m going to have issues with getting paid from the first job and pulling 2 people off will make it worse. I don’t want to risk hiring anyone right now.

 

[Sparky555]

In my experience GCs are liars. They'll say anything to get you to get a reduced contract price. They'll say anything to get you to the job site whether they're ready for you or not. They'll say anything to get you to work overtime at no additional charge. They'll say anything to delay the payment of your invoices. They'll say anything to get additional work at no cost.

Sorry I can't help you with this. I have a strong feeling that when we got into electrical contracting we just weren't thinking clearly.

 

[cruzJD]

Thank you sparky

I feel that this is the best response that I could have gotten, but you did not help with my question.

 

[satcom]

Thank you sparky

I feel that this is the best response that I could have gotten, but you did not help with my question.

Question, Did you check the background and credit of the GC's your working for? and did they sign a contract with you, where the scope of work, and all the conditions were spelled out and agreeed to? or did you go into this job, blind and trusting without your own contract? if that is the case, then you will need more help then anyone can give you. Just try not to get in any deeper with your time and money, unless you start getting paid. It is hard anyone to give you any advice, because we don't know all the facts from the beginning.

 

[LarryFine]

2 GC checks have bounced in the last month.

GC comes up with a new rule every week before he will write the check;

These two factors alone are reasons enough for this job to take a back seat to the other one. New rules are not in line with the existing contract, especially if they affect your getting paid for work done.

I recommend using most or all of your manpower to catch up on job #2, which will allow the other subs on job #1 to get caught up, which will make your time there more productive and cost-effective.

 

[tyha]

I can not beleive you are still there when a checked from a GC bounced. I put up with alot of stuff to remain in the game and keep moving forward. But in no way would I ever keep guys on a project where the GC let me take a check that was no good. The day after it happened the only person showing up to the job would be my lawyer and a Rep from the General Contractors board. Im serious, I let a good amount ride because you need to sometimes to stay in business but that is plain crazy.

 

[satcom]

I can not beleive you are still there when a checked from a GC bounced. I put up with alot of stuff to remain in the game and keep moving forward. But in no way would I ever keep guys on a project where the GC let me take a check that was no good. The day after it happened the only person showing up to the job would be my lawyer and a Rep from the General Contractors board. Im serious, I let a good amount ride because you need to sometimes to stay in business but that is plain crazy.

Years ago I almost lost everything including my family, I kept thinking if I stayed in there and kept working I would in time get paid, well $30K later I realized the GC was a dead beat and never intended to pay, it was at that time I met my accountant, who helped me work my way out of the mess, and it took years, but I learned a valuable lesson, business is business, and there are no short cuts.

 

[cruzJD]

I have what I think is a well written contract.
No I didn?t do a back round or credit check when I have worked for the GC and that company before; I finished my last job 3 weeks before this job started.

When the first check bounced I had a meeting with the owner and the GC and showed them the clause about my 19.9% interest in late penalties compounded daily. I received a new check right then from the same bank but a different account of the GC. It was 4 days late and the bad part is I don?t have a check bounce fee on my commercial contract.

The second check bounced at the same bank he uses. I opened an account there so I would have my money in my account the same day. He told me that he was going to transfer it at lunch. I was given a new check that day off the other account.

Were billing him our time and materials rate when there not able to work. He wants them there and he?s paying for them. Like when there is stuff in the way, the stop work that happened 3 weeks ago, when there idle because subs aren?t done yet, ext.

He couldn?t pay one week till he had better copies of our business license, insurance papers, and stuff. I had perfect copies in truck for him.

One week he took away the one site parking for personal vehicles and would not write the check until 2 of my guys moved there cars. The job site was closer than our shop. I don?t think that gravel lot has been used for anything but staging a few semis.

Last Monday he wanted invoices from our suppliers saying that we had zero balances for the job. I called the 3 supply houses and charged it to my debit card. Invoices were faxed with in minutes.

I don?t leave the Monday contractors meeting till I have my check in hand and go right to the bank when I leave.

Were on track for the amount of hours worked to the amount of work that?s been done. With them paying for our down time were making money on the job.

I just talked to my lawyer again; he says play his games to get paid and keep people there and don?t get more than a few days behind.

My current thought is to pull 2 guys off the job Monday once the check is at the bank and to put them on the other job.

 

[Dnkldorf]

I just talked to my lawyer again; he says play his games to get paid and keep people there and don’t get more than a few days behind.

My current thought is to pull 2 guys off the job Monday once the check is at the bank and to put them on the other job.

Why?

Call a temp source....Labor ready or someone like that, and put more guys on the T&M downtime job.

You don't hire them as employees, and their burdens are covered by the agency.

Get far enough ahead on payments to cover your breakeven say 2 weeks forward.

It would put the ball in your court then.

The next time a check bounced, I would switch to a retainer payment. He would pay in advance and work off the credit...or you walk.

Good luck.

 

[nyerinfl]

Why not use a staffing company for some additional temp labor and have the lead man on site be responsible for running them? There are electrician specific type day-labor companies, just have to find them, then no worries about hiring anyone.

Also it really bothers me when GCs try to mandate Saturday work because that puts me into an OT rate, which may not have been accounted for in the budget.

 

[cadpoint]

...
Also it really bothers me when GCs try to mandate Saturday work because that puts me into an OT rate, which may not have been accounted for in the budget.

Why isn't it in your contract that if the GC requests you to be there due to no fault of your own, that they will pay your peoples wages?
I've worked on many, many jobs where the GC had to pay to bring in the Electrical Crew, I don't get it!

 

[nyerinfl]

Why isn't it in your contract that if the GC requests you to be there due to no fault of your own, that they will pay your peoples wages?
I've worked on many, many jobs where the GC had to pay to bring in the Electrical Crew, I don't get it!

Easier said than done. Who determines who is at fault anyway? They can raise the issue that there could have been more manpower or whatever nonsense they can come up with, an uphill battle for sure.

 

[cadpoint]

Easier said than done. Who determines who is at fault anyway? They can raise the issue that there could have been more manpower or whatever nonsense they can come up with, an uphill battle for sure.

Just because their nice charts and graphs/time line/whatever aren't ringing true to their implied completion rates, that's not your problem!

Is their total manpower accounting has something to do with their payout rate from the client?
Do they base their completion rate on x-number of men on the job, maybe their in trouble.

So, then it's not in your contract, as I read it in your OP, it's not your fault in either case. Why should you pay for their mistakes, or their ramp up, IE it's their fault, if I totally missed it, forgive me!

Just something to think about adding, IE in your future contracts!

Granted my experience have been with heavier construction, but we were on schedule and it was covering a ramp up and not a catch-up!

 

[cruzJD]

This job had 1 sub back out at the last minute and one sub went bankrupt and closed the week they were going to start there.
We have not worked a Saturday on that job but a few of the other subs are working 6 ten hour days. I got my guys working 5 eight hour days, they did have a 7 hour day so I could get them all at the shop for our monthly OSHA video and test.

Our contract has the clause that the GC pays wages when we are requested to be there. That?s how I?m getting them to pay for our down time.

I did bribe everyone to work 2 Saturdays in a row last month. We did a huge addition a few months back and they were updating the old part of the building. It was a ballast switch out with all new bulbs and lenses, new switches, new outlets, new exit signs, new emergency lighting, a little cat 6, and a few circuits. We did a floor each day and the place was totally empty. Both days I showed up with the grill and fixed New York stakes, grilled veggies, and brought desert.

 

[LarryFine]

Both days I showed up with the grill and fixed New York stakes . . .

Are they as tasty as Belmont Stakes?

 

[cruzJD]

Are they as tasty as Belmont Stakes?

I had to look that up ;-) but no I didn?t bring them the June horse race in the middle of October.

I went to Sams club and bought a few family packs of New York strip stakes. At the point that your boss shows up with a grill on a job site and cooks you stakes and grilled vegetables the stuff that?s going through there mind should be; he didn?t cheap out, they taste good, he?s paying me over time pay to eat, and he?s not rushing me to get back to work.

 

[Sparky555]

I had to look that up ;-) but no I didn’t bring them the June horse race in the middle of October.

I went to Sams club and bought a few family packs of New York strip stakes. At the point that your boss shows up with a grill on a job site and cooks you stakes and grilled vegetables the stuff that’s going through there mind should be; he didn’t cheap out, they taste good, he’s paying me over time pay to eat, and he’s not rushing me to get back to work.

Rather than look up Belmont Stakes, look up steaks.

 

[Ohmy]

Were currently working 2 large jobs one is a week ahead and the other is 3 weeks behind. Both GC?s want more people on the job. I?m sure I know what I want to do but would like other people thoughts.

#1 is 3 weeks behind because of other subs. Were chasing other subs through the building and there are other subs chasing us. 2 GC checks have bounced in the last month. GC comes up with a new rule every week before he will write the check; this week was all accounts for the job must have a zero balance before being paid. Currently have 3 two man crews on the job. Getting paid for down time.
I have worked for this company a bunch of times and this GC a few times. There jobs have always run much smother. After talking to others the whole company is getting like this.

#2 is 8 days ahead of schedule and was told today that if I don?t get more men on the job I will be slowing it down soon. GC pays twice a week and must have invoices that shows you owe less than $5,000 for that job. Currently have 2 two man crews, a lone ranger a few days a week, and I show up and ?help? when I have time.
Out of state company just opened up an office in town. This is the first job I have worked for them. I have a second job with this company starting in a few weeks. I have been asked to bid on 2 other jobs they have lined up.


Worked a few Saturdays on last minute for ?we have to have this done now?.

I need to get 2 more people on job #2. I feel that no mater what I?m going to have issues with getting paid from the first job and pulling 2 people off will make it worse. I don?t want to risk hiring anyone right now.

Go where the money is everytime. Whats the saying..."money talks, bull@#@ walks." It sounds like the first contractor is long on the Bull and lean on the money so move your guys to where they make money.

BTW, would you rather be chasing this first guy for alot of money or a little money? Second, when this first guy goes bust...it will be nice to have a good new contact.

 

[cruzJD]

The first GC is doing 3 unattached motel buildings. The first one will finish this week. The second one is getting close to us starting trim out. The third one just got red tagged; the core plumbing drilling contractor hit a post tension cable Saturday. I got 2 guys left on the job.

The second GC is doing a huge semi shop. Thursday we punch list the offices, by Monday the parts department should be ready for our punch list, and Monday I started the pipe rack, setting the panels, and setting transformers in the shop with 5 men. I got 7 on the job and will move 2 back to the other job when they lift the red tag.

I killed my cash pad. Friday after getting my weekly check on job the first job I ordered the materials I would need for the week with 4 people on it. With having to pick up a bunch of materials at the last minute for the second job I?m running dry. But on the bright side we installed 12 panels and 3 pad mount transformers for the shop that were ridding on my inventory for the 28 days. After the contractors meeting in 3 hours I?ll be fine.

This is the first time I have run down the road of having to much money tied up in materials. I?m used to being able to let some balances sit on supply house accounts till pay day and paying them not the other way around.

 

[Rewire]

pull a crew from job 1 this will keep job 2 ahead .if you are having down time on job 1 then 2 crews hould be able to handle it. If job 1 needs a gang bang for a couple days then being ahead on job 2 is a priority