How many of you......?

[76nemo]

I had a friend call tonight that's an excellent contractor all the way around. He's very sharp and pays very close attention to detail. He built his own house and roughed everything electrically in his new house. Someone else did his service and he asked me to tie everything into the main panel.

I don't know who ran the service but I told him everything I checked after I was done would be sure to be up to code and every circuit would go through loop impedance testing in order for my name to be tied to it.

I hate this, doing jobs for good ol' chums. He wanted to pay me to tie into the panel and be done, I said,..."I don't think so."

I know most of all of you have done this, but I HATE IT!!!!!!!!

Friends and customers don't mix. We live in a town where permits aren't pulled.

Now that all devices are terminated except at the panel, what lines do YOU draw????

Yes, this is a house he bought and lives in his old home. I HATE doing ANY work after someone else. I absolutely can't freakin' stand it. I could use the money come holiday season. I want to walk away, but I'd like the piece of mine knowing it's done right from the get go.

I really worry about what I'll find,...you?????

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Two things about this standout and up front.

1. YOU NEED THE MONEY!

2. He is a friend, and there is no better way to help a friend than to do a good job yourself.

If he can afford a second house, he can afford you!!!

My next question:
How come you aren't finished yet?

 

[LarryFine]

Someone else did his service and he asked me to tie everything into the main panel.

My first question would be why is this the one part he or his "someone else" can't do? Between someone who knows how to rough and someone who can do a service, they ought to be able to figure out the panel work.

More than once, I've suggested that a friend/past customer/whatever who, for whatever reason, chose to hire someone else for some of the work, and now wants my talent, ask the other person to finish the job.

In case it sounds petty, this isn't the same thing as, say, having a customer hire someone else to do the trenching for an underground installation (which I'm happy to not be responsible for). Yeah, it is personal sometimes.


Now, understand that the above editorial is not a 100% thing; I judge each slap in the face on its own merits.

 

[wawireguy]

No permits? I'd just document the work you did. The days you worked. Take pics when you show up. Make sure everything you do or have to redo is up to code. I'd do a walk through and give his wiring the once over. Might be a chance to upsell your services. On the reciept put what work you did so there's a record. It's always good to make some money : )

 

[iwire]

Hook it up, check the receptacles with a snake eyes. Look at a few boxes to see how the work looks, it does not have to meet your own expectations only the code requirements.

I HATE doing ANY work after someone else. I absolutely can't freakin' stand it. I could use the money come holiday season. I want to walk away, but I'd like the piece of mine knowing it's done right from the get go.

You have to put your ego aside and realize other people can do electrical work, it will not be done how you would have done it but that does not mean it is wrong.

 

[jumper]

We live in a town where permits aren't pulled.

Are you saying that permits are not needed or that people get away with not getting them? This is the only thing that really bothers me about this job. Around here the inspector calls the POCO for the service hook up, not the electrian or homeowner.

I do not see as too very diiferent than when you do a panel change out. You are not responsible for the existing circuits, just the panel. However, since nothing is permitted or inspected, I can understand walking away from it.

 

[jrannis]

The following was written by David Shapiro. He has published books and I recently read some of his articles in one of our trade publications concerning Chinese Drywall. He spells out some of the work conditions and his premium fees.
I would like to hand this to a customer an see if they bite.
I mentioned to Mr. Shapiro that I would like to tweak it a bit and use it. He gave me permission and asked that I send him the finished product if I could improve or adapt the work. I would appreciate any constructive comments that would be helpful.

Below is a small part of his compensation page. If you want the whole thing PM me.

RATE VARIATIONS

Some services exceed the standard offerings of electrical contractors. When you need these, I add charges to the base rate of $88 an hour.

Premiums

Occasionally, customers put in sweat equity, which means that they perform specified parts of the job under my supervision. If you are interested in helping me on the job, please request guidelines. These explain what assistance I consider appropriate when I am taking ultimate responsibility for work, and detail the rates that apply.

I evaluate wiring and consult on wiring projects. I don't have a flat fee for safety surveys, for laying out jobs, for preparing specifications, and for other such tasks. Instead, I charge a consultation premium of $24 an hour, on top of my base rate, to help you in these ways. I also provide more formal "white collar" consultation; I charge a premium of $54 an hour for work that leads to depositions, formal reports, or other testimony; and for consultation on others' electrical books and articles, even ghostwriting.

I undertake follow-up work troubleshooting, rewiring, or otherwise completing installations and repairs begun by others. This may involve my exposing at least part of the previous work in order to evaluate it, after which I will determine whether it needs replacement. When I am hired to take over a job, I require a letter stating that the previous contract is closed uncontested; that there is no legal hindrance to my removing or changing what I find. While I will complete installations begun by others when I judge that it is safe to do so, I can not accept ultimate responsibility for any part of the wiring that I have not performed myself.

In addition to the premium for taking on this work, any surcharges described in the section that follows may apply. For example, when I consider something potentially unsafe to work on, if I agree to correct the wiring -- as opposed to simply ripping it out and rewiring -- a separate charge applies, beyond the premium for completing another's installation.

I charge a premium of $16.00/hour to take over legal, professional, non-hazardous work that another licensed electrician has left unfinished.

I charge a premium of $34.00/hour to work on previously-installed or -begun wiring that was not properly covered by permits, or was wired unprofessionally, or both.

Surcharges

I surcharge for work performed outside my standard schedule:
Rush jobs;
Evening, weekend, and holiday work;
and work beyond 7 1/2 hours in one day, which takes more out of me.
I also surcharge for work that may put me at any risk of harm (this is not limited to electrical dangers).

Finally, I charge for working under unusually difficult or unpleasant conditions.
Some of these are under your control. One example is leaving the cat's litter box near where I am to work. Another that may be less immediately obvious is leaving delicate items stored in the areas I will have to get past in the course of my work, so I need to tiptoe around and to gingerly restack your treasures before I carry a ladder through, or drag an extension cord or cable.
Some are not under your control: for example, sometimes the work means plowing through fiberglass in an unventilated attic or clawing my way through a crawlspace. Sometimes, the latter examples may constitute hazardous conditions, not merely onerous.

Surcharges and premiums add together.



This is certainly food for thought.

If you happen to be able to use this in your business or profit from it, consider buying one of his books.

 

[magictolight.com]

The bad thing about this is if there is a problem down the road you will be the first guy the fire investigator calls. You don't know when you trim that panel if 12 gauge homerun cable is tied to 14 gauge branch circuits down line, etc., etc. Tough call but if I did it, it would be a donation to the friend, and if they gave me a gift as a token of their appreciation, that would be ok. That way their is no paper work, no agreements. Just helping a friend out.

 

[iwire]

The bad thing about this is if there is a problem down the road you will be the first guy the fire investigator calls. You don't know when you trim that panel if 12 gauge homerun cable is tied to 14 gauge branch circuits down line, etc., etc.

How is this any different than a typical panel swap?

 

[magictolight.com]

How is this any different than a typical panel swap?

Good point, except that it is a brand new install on a new house, with now the 3rd "electrician" working on it.

 

[iwire]

Good point, except that it is a brand new install.

Which should be easier to verify than a 1920s home with K&T, BX, NM and god knows what else.:grin:

I just don't see this as big deal, I would open a few boxes and check the persons grounding and termination techniques, if they looked good fine. If it looked bad I might have to say that the price will have to include opening all boxes.

 

[magictolight.com]

If there is a problem like a fire down the road, the lines as to who did what start to get blurry. Document, document, document. This is what lawyers have done to us! At least on an old house, if there is a problem it should be pretty clear that the problem was from 20, 30, 40 year old wiring.

 

[fondini]

I gotta agree with iwire on this one, which also means i had to give myself an atittude check. Thanks! once in awhile I need that. Right on the money with comparing it to a panel swap.

 

[jumper]

Are you saying that permits are not needed or that people get away with not getting them? This is the only thing that really bothers me about this job. Around here the inspector calls the POCO for the service hook up, not the electrian or homeowner.

I do not see as too very diiferent than when you do a panel change out. You are not responsible for the existing circuits, just the panel. However, since nothing is permitted or inspected, I can understand walking away from it.

How is this any different than a typical panel swap?

I gotta agree with iwire on this one, which also means i had to give myself an atittude check. Thanks! once in awhile I need that. Right on the money with comparing it to a panel swap.

I agree with you, which means I agree with Iwire, which means I agree with Jumper, and since I am Jumper, I agree with myself since I said this first. However my grammer and spelling kinda killed the lucidity of that post, oh well.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I get calls like this. I check them out. One I found the 18 flourescent lights would not fit in the indirect lighting cabinets he made.
So he took them a part. The ballast was sitting on the shelf right on the wood. The ends we're taped on the tubes.
I passed on this one.

The point is just check it out. You can ussually tell how good their wiring methods are.

 

[cschmid]

I had a friend call tonight that's an excellent contractor all the way around. He's very sharp and pays very close attention to detail. He built his own house and roughed everything electrically in his new house. Someone else did his service and he asked me to tie everything into the main panel.

I don't know who ran the service but I told him everything I checked after I was done would be sure to be up to code and every circuit would go through loop impedance testing in order for my name to be tied to it.

I hate this, doing jobs for good ol' chums. He wanted to pay me to tie into the panel and be done, I said,..."I don't think so."

I know most of all of you have done this, but I HATE IT!!!!!!!!

Friends and customers don't mix. We live in a town where permits aren't pulled.

Now that all devices are terminated except at the panel, what lines do YOU draw????

Yes, this is a house he bought and lives in his old home. I HATE doing ANY work after someone else. I absolutely can't freakin' stand it. I could use the money come holiday season. I want to walk away, but I'd like the piece of mine knowing it's done right from the get go.

I really worry about what I'll find,...you?????

Okay lets check the term friend..If friend wanted me to do that he would have some beer and grilled steak after we worked for couple hours together on project and after the house was finished some cash in my pocket.

on the other hand an acquaintance would want me to do the job as cheap as I can and save him some cash so he can make a buck, then it becomes business and not friendship. I would expect some other work from him as well and when it did not come I would not do him any more favors. I would also do some talking to other acquaintance as well about his expectations of a professional relationships.