Federal Pacific Panels

[chris1971]

I always tell my customers that these panels are dangerous and need to be replaced. Does anyone have a good website, link or information that I could look at and possibly share with customers?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

try this site

 

[chris1971]

Thank you.

 

[buzzbar]

Here's another good site:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

 

[TOOL_5150]

Here's another good site:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

Thats the same site :grin:

~Matt

 

[macmikeman]

I always tell my customers that these panels are dangerous and need to be replaced. Does anyone have a good website, link or information that I could look at and possibly share with customers?

I tell my customers that there is possibly problems with those panels, and then I take them to a link about the issues. I am reluctant to make definite statements about products until this is proven beyond any doubt that they are in fact absolutely dangerous, not just possibly some are dangerous....

 

[ElectricianJeff]

I tell my customers to just "google" federal pacific and read it for themselves.

 

[Rewire]

I just tell customers that FP panels should be replaced and tell them to google fedreral pacific. I also tell them replacement breakers start at $25.00 .

 

[ishium 80439]

I used to use the soft sell on FPE. Tell the customer that it should be changed but doesn't mean it will catch fire tonight, there are 10's of 1000's of these serving and there is not a fire every night etc etc. I would then tell them to google it. (This scenario was if I was in the house for something else and noticed they had an FPE).

Than one day about 2 years ago something happened to make me step up my rhetoric. We were doing miscellaneous things in this home that had an FPE panel. One of things was to change out a broken receptacle. My journeyman was taking it out when it essentially crumbled in his hands. Well this caused a H to N short (yes I know we shouldn't have been working hot but that is not what this thread is about). When these wires shorted they arced so bad that something in the box actually caught fire- my Jman told me he had to blow out the flame. The breaker held.

From that day forward I always tell people that they are taking their safety and the safety of their families in their hands every day they leave that panel up.

 

[cal1947]

electrician

electrician

I always tell my customers that these panels are dangerous and need to be replaced. Does anyone have a good website, link or information that I could look at and possibly share with customers?

there was a article in the realstate section of are paper a person ask that same question and the resonce was that one homeowner that bought a house the homeowners ins. co. would not ins. the property unless they had a lic. con. change th e service.

 

[rcarroll]

there was a article in the realstate section of are paper a person ask that same question and the resonce was that one homeowner that bought a house the homeowners ins. co. would not ins. the property unless they had a lic. con. change th e service.

I inspected several panel change-outs this year due to insurance letters.

 

[zappy]

I used to use the soft sell on FPE. Tell the customer that it should be changed but doesn't mean it will catch fire tonight, there are 10's of 1000's of these serving and there is not a fire every night etc etc. I would then tell them to google it. (This scenario was if I was in the house for something else and noticed they had an FPE).

Than one day about 2 years ago something happened to make me step up my rhetoric. We were doing miscellaneous things in this home that had an FPE panel. One of things was to change out a broken receptacle. My journeyman was taking it out when it essentially crumbled in his hands. Well this caused a H to N short (yes I know we shouldn't have been working hot but that is not what this thread is about). When these wires shorted they arced so bad that something in the box actually caught fire- my Jman told me he had to blow out the flame. The breaker held.

From that day forward I always tell people that they are taking their safety and the safety of their families in their hands every day they leave that panel up.

I've noticed that about FP breakers. You try and turn them off, and you have to be a freakin body builder.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
Than one day about 2 years ago something happened to make me step up my rhetoric. We were doing miscellaneous things in this home that had an FPE panel. One of things was to change out a broken receptacle. My journeyman was taking it out when it essentially crumbled in his hands. Well this caused a H to N short (yes I know we shouldn't have been working hot but that is not what this thread is about). When these wires shorted they arced so bad that something in the box actually caught fire- my Jman told me he had to blow out the flame. The breaker held.

That can happen with any breaker and the fact that it can happen is one of the reasons that the code now requires AFCIs in dwelling units.
When there is an accidental fault like this you have no idea of how good of connection was made nor any idea of how much current was flowing. It does not take a lot of current to shoot of a part of the wire or device and have that part hot enough to ignite something in the box.

 

[Ohmy]

I tell my customers that there is possibly problems with those panels, and then I take them to a link about the issues. I am reluctant to make definite statements about products until this is proven beyond any doubt that they are in fact absolutely dangerous, not just possibly some are dangerous....

It possibly has problems? All panels could "possibly" have problems. The FP panel is a known defective product with a well documented history of failure. IMO, changing an FP is a "must fix." Besides, I would be flat embarrest if another contractor found out that my customers have FP panels in their house.

How would you like it if your mechanic causally mentions that you care has the old firestone tires or some other major defect after years of using him to work on that car. He says "its not big deal, I mean, your car is running now right?"

 

[Ohmy]

That can happen with any breaker and the fact that it can happen is one of the reasons that the code now requires AFCIs in dwelling units.
When there is an accidental fault like this you have no idea of how good of connection was made nor any idea of how much current was flowing. It does not take a lot of current to shoot of a part of the wire or device and have that part hot enough to ignite something in the box.

My guys bring burned up devices and FP panels back to the shop all the time. This is much more common than you think. I've replaced two FP panels where the fire company had to come out to the house to put out the fire.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

My guys bring burned up devices and FP panels back to the shop all the time. This is much more common than you think. I've replaced two FP panels where the fire company had to come out to the house to put out the fire.

I am not saying faults that cause fires don't happen, I am saying they can happen with any breaker. Very few faults are bolted faults and flow enough current to operate the breaker in its instantaneous trip range. That is not a problem with the breaker....it is just the nature of many faults that limit the current to the point that the breaker does not open quickly.

 

[macmikeman]

It possibly has problems? All panels could "possibly" have problems. The FP panel is a known defective product with a well documented history of failure. IMO, changing an FP is a "must fix." Besides, I would be flat embarrest if another contractor found out that my customers have FP panels in their house.

How would you like it if your mechanic causally mentions that you care has the old firestone tires or some other major defect after years of using him to work on that car. He says "its not big deal, I mean, your car is running now right?"

Ohmy, about 1/2 of the structures built on Oahu built before the 70's had FPE stablock panels, commercial and residential. The community has not by and large suffered from this firestorm you are referring to. There may well be some documented cases of fire due to those defective breakers, not near to the degree you are attempting to sell. I find bad circuit breakers in older panels of all brands. I didn't run out and get a swine flu vaccination either just cause it happens to be getting lots of press right now.

 

[bpk]

They may not all be defective but I know if I moved my family into a house with one installed I would be changeing it immediatley.

 

[rodneee]

federal pacific electric co. out of newark nj makers of the STAB-LOK breaker. they were considered state of the art at the time. currently they are known as "change on sight breakers". after reading these posts i had to find some in the warehouse. i got a few (maybe a hundred) that have been sentenced to life on the shelf without the possibility of installation. the one aging prisoner is a two pole 50 1960's vintage with white painted on/off and red painted 50's (no raised lettering). he is an old bird as he is both copper and aluminum rated.

 

[readydave8]

I've noticed that about FP breakers. You try and turn them off, and you have to be a freakin body builder.

try flippin the opposite direction