Inspector's Rant

[ivsenroute]

To the other inspectors:

Is it just me or are there any other areas where electricians are somehow convinced that NM and UF cable is actually THHN and allowable ampacity is out of the 75 degree column?

I should not have to spend any more time trying to educate both electricians and supply houses that a 50A Range or a 50A Hot Tub needs to be supplied by 6/3 NM cable and not 8/3. If they want to use 8awg copper then run conduit and pull THHN. This has been happening all year long.

334.80 Ampacity.
The ampacity of Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable shall be determined in accordance with 310.15. The ampacity shall be in accordance with the 60?C (140?F) conductor temperature rating. The 90?C (194?F) rating shall be permitted to be used for ampacity derating purposes, provided the final derated ampacity does not exceed that for a 60?C (140?F) rated conductor. The ampacity of Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable installed in cable tray shall be determined in accordance with 392.11.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Are you saying after 1 red tag to a EC they still do it ? Perhaps send a letter to every EC licensed there but no it really is not your job to train them. Hope your area charges reinspect fees

 

[quogueelectric]

Keep hanging the big V you should not hae to edumacate them too. Dont loose any sleep over it I certainly wont.

 

[ivsenroute]

I am not losing sleep over it, just wanted to rant because I see it so often and today got a phone call from an electrician who argued with me over it. I always do one re-inspection for free. After that, you are writing me a check for every re-inspection past the regularly scheduled ones.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Look at it this way. They now do the job twice. Write the violation number and i dont know why they would even try to argue. Some things are gray but not this. Are they same guys doing this also getting tags for a lot of other violations ?

 

[resistance]

I'm sure this is going on in many areas.

 

[e57]

I always do one re-inspection for free. After that, you are writing me a check for every re-inspection past the regularly scheduled ones.

Maybe not re-inspect free - not even once... Then instead of trying to educate - inspect and fail... Or make a little pamphet of common screw ups you're sick of talking about... (There are plenty of examples of conductor sizing, etc. to cut and paste from...) Then you wait for the reinspection fee...

 

[SEO]

I always do one re-inspection for free.

Why do you do re-inspections for free? Your time is worth as much the second time as the first. Write the violation and cite code section and answer questions over the phone if need be.

 

[elohr46]

I am not losing sleep over it, just wanted to rant because I see it so often and today got a phone call from an electrician who argued with me over it. I always do one re-inspection for free. After that, you are writing me a check for every re-inspection past the regularly scheduled ones.

If you charge them for every inspection, they will learn the code quicker.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I always do one re-inspection for free.

Why do you do re-inspections for free? Your time is worth as much the second time as the first. Write the violation and cite code section and answer questions over the phone if need be.

If you charge them for every inspection, they will learn the code quicker.

I don't work in your area, but if I did, I would ask you to charge for every inspection. Sorry about your frustation with us workers.

 

[ivsenroute]

The problem is that when you charge for each and every inspection if they fail, the municipality starts getting compliants. I try to re-inspect during other inspections so as to not burden the electrical installers. So if I have to come back for a plumbing inspection the next week, I will try to schedule the re-inspection then.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Here we can't charge for reinspections but I prefer someone who questions me to someone who never says anything. The electrician that doesn't question me on why the installation is in violation just makes the correction for this town and goes back to his old habits in the next. If he questions me and I can show him where he is wrong he will correct his installations from there on.

 

[cowboyjwc]

The reason you might be having troubles is, the other inspectors in your area.

I went on a sign inspection yesterday and the guy says "I remember you, your the inspector that climbed up in the attic". I said well they all do don't they? and he said no.

I told him when I climb up there I usually find a j box cover missing, the conduit not strapped and the transformers not mounted. He said "yeah that's what you wrote me up for.":roll:

 

[augie47]

If it's the same electric an or contractor over and over I would definitely charge the re-inspect fee. I have a couple of HVAC installers that NEVER mark the heat install tag for the proper unit. Nit-pickey little requirement, but after reminding them a number of times, I started chagrining re-inspect. Strangely, it hasn't changed much, they say "oh!, again?" and pay the fees over and over. No idea how you correct that. I just keep going to the bank.
I'm afraid John is correct also. If it's different folks and a repetitive problem, some other inspectors aren't doing their job. I have "filled in" in areas where every job has numerous violations on such things as NM rating, stapling, box fill, etc. It becomes apparent very quickly that some guys aren't at all proficient in their inspecting.

 

[e57]

Here: We had some high-rises that were to be built - then the developers bailed out, asked the Mayor for the permit money back - the dope gave it to them - nearly bankrupting the DBI. They have since laid off all new hires, and the inspectors that are left do 50 to 60 inspections a day. And all the permit fees are up, but reinspections always costed something - and IMO thats the point. If you give an inch you loose a mile. And if it's wrong the first and second time both costing money - then the third will cost money too... If these are tax-payer dollars I would expect nothing less. No free rides. And it is not as if the information is not out there - as some hidden or overly complicated code - like the IRS which certainly make you pay for your mistake... It's in black and white - if they don't read or own a code book or know how to read it - it should cost them every single time.

 

[mpd]

The reason you might be having troubles is, the other inspectors in your area.

I went on a sign inspection yesterday and the guy says "I remember you, your the inspector that climbed up in the attic". I said well they all do don't they? and he said no.:roll:

you hit the nail on the head, those type of inspectors make our job a lot harder

 

[cowboyjwc]

Here: We had some high-rises that were to be built - then the developers bailed out, asked the Mayor for the permit money back - the dope gave it to them - nearly bankrupting the DBI. They have since laid off all new hires, and the inspectors that are left do 50 to 60 inspections a day. And all the permit fees are up, but reinspections always costed something - and IMO thats the point. If you give an inch you loose a mile. And if it's wrong the first and second time both costing money - then the third will cost money too... If these are tax-payer dollars I would expect nothing less. No free rides. And it is not as if the information is not out there - as some hidden or overly complicated code - like the IRS which certainly make you pay for your mistake... It's in black and white - if they don't read or own a code book or know how to read it - it should cost them every single time.

We would give back roughly 80% in a situation like that. I do have to say that you are doing much better than us (giving that you are a much larger jurisdiction) but as a department (7 inspectors) we're not doing 50 to 60 inspections a week. We are also give one reinspection.

MPD: We're right next to the City of Los Angeles and the County of Los Angeles, both used to be highly respected departments, always ahead of the curve, basically a "if you can build it there you can build it anywhere" type thing, but lately I am not near as impressed with them as I used to be.

 

[e57]

FWIW this topic is linked in another thread...

 

[wireguru]

MPD: We're right next to the City of Los Angeles and the County of Los Angeles, both used to be highly respected departments, always ahead of the curve, basically a "if you can build it there you can build it anywhere" type thing, but lately I am not near as impressed with them as I used to be.

what?!?!?!...you mean your general manager of building and safety didnt...(nevermind)

 

[cowboyjwc]

what?!?!?!...you mean your general manager of building and safety didnt...(nevermind)

Come on, you were going somewhere with that.