Home inspections

[cschmid]

I just got done watching a episode of HGTV Holmes on Homes and when the episode was done the Home owner stated on nation TV that the Home Inspector gave their house a clean bill of sale. That next time they will not use a Home Inspector because he did not find any of the problems they had to repair and would hire professionals to inspect instead.

Now when home owners state that what do you think? You know my opinion on HI's. Now I have couple of questions for you.

Do You think a licensed home inspector and is unlicensed in the electrical field: with none to minimal experience on electrical should be inspecting electrical installations?

What do you think the Home Inspectors reliability should be?

Do you think a unlicensed individual should be making monetary gain off of electrical inspections?

What kind of electrical work requires an licensed individual and what types of electrical work does not?

My Opinion.
If you except money for doing any type of electrical work you should be licensed in my opinion and that includes inspecting electrical of any sort. If your opinion cause someone to spend money on electrical you are now consulting and should so be licensed. these are my opinions what are yours?

 

[Ken9876]

I don't think very highly of HI's. Some are good some are bad just like electricians, they are not experts in any field. I really think they are just there to make the home owner aware of problems that may exist. In my experiance they look at the panel, go around the home with a plug in tester and thats about it, so they aren't doing any real electrical work. Then I'll get a call to check the home,. and find numerous problems. They should come with a big disclamier that makes the home owner aware of their experiance. I guess home owners feel is cheaper is get a home inspector then to hire several trades people to inspect the home.

 

[cschmid]

so what type of electrical work can you do unlicensed?

Can you consult people on electrical with out a license? where do you think the line should be drawn. If a unlicensed HI can give electrical advice then why not Joe the plumber down the street, he should he beable to give advice? where is the line?

 

[iwire]

I just got done watching a episode of HGTV Holmes on Homes and when the episode was done the Home owner stated on nation TV that the Home Inspector gave their house a clean bill of sale. That next time they will not use a Home Inspector because he did not find any of the problems they had to repair and would hire professionals to inspect instead.

Now when home owners state that what do you think? You know my opinion on HI's. Now I have couple of questions for you.

Do You think a licensed home inspector and is unlicensed in the electrical field: with none to minimal experience on electrical should be inspecting electrical installations?

What do you think the Home Inspectors reliability should be?

Do you think a unlicensed individual should be making monetary gain off of electrical inspections?

What kind of electrical work requires an licensed individual and what types of electrical work does not?

My Opinion.
If you except money for doing any type of electrical work you should be licensed in my opinion and that includes inspecting electrical of any sort. If your opinion cause someone to spend money on electrical you are now consulting and should so be licensed. these are my opinions what are yours?

In my opinion Home inspector is not a code inspector and is not doing electrical work.

They can give opinions, unlike code inspectors, they also rarely have any 'authority' to force their opinions on anyone.

 

[nakulak]

I love home inspectors. I'm thinking of taking the 2 hour (?) course in order to become a home inspector.

 

[walkerj]

I am not a big fan of HI's.

I used to lurk at NACHI and they are a bunch of know-it-all morons.

 

[walkerj]

I love home inspectors. I'm thinking of taking the 2 hour (?) course in order to become a home inspector.

That's all it takes.

Oh, and you have to fail at everything else you have tried to do:roll:

 

[iwire]

I love home inspectors. I'm thinking of taking the 2 hour (?) course in order to become a home inspector.

That's all it takes.

You should, there is money to be made.

But here in MA there is a one year apprenticeship, required training and a test to become an HI.

Massachusetts

Legislative Summary
The requirements to become an Associate Home Inspector are the following:

1.) 75 hours of education that include the following items:

(a) Six hours dedicated to the inspection of roofing,

(b) Six hours dedicated to the inspection of exterior cladding system(s).

(c) Six hours dedicated to the inspection of masonry system(s).

(d) Nine hours dedicated to the inspection of structural system(s).

(e) Nine hours dedicated to the inspection of electrical system(s).

(f) Nine hours dedicated to the inspection of plumbing system(s).

(g) Nine hours dedicated to the inspection of heating and air conditioning systems.

(h) Six hours shall be dedicated to the 266 CMR regulations including the standards of practice.

(i) Six hours dedicated to Report writing.

(j) Three hours dedicated to professional ethics.

(k) Three hours dedicated to contract law.



To meet the total number of hours required, the Trainee shall select, at his/her option, any three additional open Training Credits.

1.) Complete 25 inspections under the supervision of a licensed Massachusetts home inspector

2.) Successfully pass the National Home Inspector Exam

3.) Obtain $250,000 of errors and omissions insurance and apply for the associate home inspectors license.

After becoming an Associate Home Inspector you must complete an additional 100 home Inspections under the direction of a licensed Home Inspector for a period of one year, and then apply for the Home Inspector License.

Massachusetts has reciprocity with the state of Connecticut. Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 112 s 224 states "Upon payment to the Board of a fee and the submission of a written application provided by said Board, the Board shall issue a home inspector license to a person who holds a valid license or registration issued by another jurisdiction which has standards substantially equivalent to or exceeding the standards of the Commonwealth, as determined by said Board."

Massachusetts requires 12 hours of continuing education per licensing period.

The Board does not accept Correspondence or Online courses for continuing education.

Really not so easy here.

 

[cschmid]

Bob
I am actually happy to see some standards on HI's. Yet I am curious when the local law/ordinances state you must be licensed to do electrical work who and where is the line drawn.

My reason is here is that who is determining who can consult on electrical issues. when some one come in and assess your house is is now telling you he is a knowledgeable person on the issue and is accepting money for it. So by not stating our opinions on the mater we are letting people take money out of our pockets. PE's are designers and consultants, electrical contractors are designers and consultants, They have meet all the requirements set by the state.

So by allowing HI's to go inspect and give opinion on electrical they are being compensated for electrical work that is specifically covered by state laws and they do not meet the requirements to do so. We are allowing a negative view of the electrical industry to the public that anyone can do electrical. So why do we need to pay all this extra for electricians you do not need to be qualified look at HI's they only need weekend course to do electrical consultations.

If that is not the case then lets think about this. sample conversation. I have noticed several issues while doing your home inspection. the outlet in the bathroom is a GFCI outlet and should be replaced with a GFCI outlet. (that is an inspection and design) the panel is also of concern as it is a federal pacific and they have not been manufactured for years and it posses a risk of fire and should be replaced with a newer panel. I would think for purpose of resale you should use a Sq D panel as it would be an assest to you in the resale of your house. (that also is inspection and design)

This may seem harmless enough but the perception to the public is all it takes is a weekend course and I can do that. So I am challenging you guys where do you draw the line on what qualified is and why do we allow unqualified people to do electrical. I know plumbers who know about electrical the HI's and we allow the sate to say they can. So why not General contractors? plumbers? and the list goes on..

 

[cschmid]

Just another note the same people who say you have to have all these requirements to do electrical work; also say it is not necessary to have these requirements to do consulting work. Because that is what is taking place. Also handyman services are picking up the extra work not contractors. The state is laying on all these regulations for electricians and yet allowing others to do electrical work that falls into the scope of our electrical profession. As long as all you professionals think it is okay where does it stop? If we do not say something about this then whats the difference if the handyman just wires in every basement remodel. So who cares who does electrical work? I am saying we need to think about this issue before it is out of hand.

 

[~Shado~]

I too am not thrilled with HI's.

I think if licensure is required to be a HI, that the AHJ should also provide a printed check list of what they deem acceptable to inspect and how to do it.

These forms would only be gotten at the AHJ's office, proof of required classes, education, etc.... before any are released.

The form should also state the limited qualifications of the HI, and that a Licensed professional would be able to ascertain a better scope of repairs if necessary, and has the final say on things. This would eliminate arguments that sometimes come to the front between all involved.

 

[iwire]

Can someone explain to me the safety hazard a bad HI creates?


I ask because I know for a fact that many times HIs find true safety hazards and they end up getting fixed. I am having a hard time trying to find something bad about that.

 

[roger]

I ask because I know for a fact that many times HIs find true safety hazards and they end up getting fixed. I am having a hard time trying to find something bad about that.

Ditto that. I personally have no problem with HI's and I have never had anybody (including HI's) question my call over theirs.


Roger

 

[radiopet]

I too am not thrilled with HI's.

I think if licensure is required to be a HI, that the AHJ should also provide a printed check list of what they deem acceptable to inspect and how to do it.

These forms would only be gotten at the AHJ's office, proof of required classes, education, etc.... before any are released.

The form should also state the limited qualifications of the HI, and that a Licensed professional would be able to ascertain a better scope of repairs if necessary, and has the final say on things. This would eliminate arguments that sometimes come to the front between all involved.

Yet another ignorant statement.......The AHJ has nothing to do with what an HI does. The AHJ has no grounds for being involved with what an HI does nor does the Electrician. The fact is, without the HI doing the inspection the Electrician would have no even know the problem exists in the first place......

Sounds to me like many Electricians are hurting from the hardship of the times that they believe they should be doing home inspections or portions their of. So should a buyer go and get a Plumber, Structural Engineer, Foundation Engineer, HVAC Mechanic, Roofing Contractor and so on just to get a check list on a house they intend to buy....Get Real !

The HI ( some good...some not so good. Same equates to electricians as well ) is a generalist....not an expert on any one field of study but strives to be well rounded in many fields.....atleast enough to make visual observations.

I have found (Over 15+ years working with HI's) that most take a great deal of pride in what they do, they dont choose to be Electricians, Plumbers, or HVAC guys as they tend to devote their time learning the basics of all trades so as to be well rounded in the basics and know exactly when to defer to the experts ( which I use the term very LOOSE these days ).

Give the HI a break.....they are good at what they do and they have no desire to do what you do. And again the AHJ could careless what the HI does as that is local government and the licensing for HI's is usually on the state level as the same authority that licensed YOU the electrician.

OH...by the way...I wont stay long....but like to comment when I see garbage.

 

[nakulak]

looks like the requirements here are a 72 hr course, a test, and (most importantly) a $450.00 fee.

http://www.dllr.state.md.us/license/real_est_app/reahilic.htm

 

[nakulak]

By the way, Paul, Merry Christmas. I noticed that in the last hour you have responded to two threads, calling one person a fool and the other that his statement was ignorant. I also noticed that you almost never treat people like that on your forum.

Have a nice Holiday and New Year.

 

[milehiwire]

Is that a real picture of you nakulak?

Dang! I thought I was funny looking.

 

[~Shado~]

Well radio...sounds like you have Class A HI's where you are at. Good for you!!! Makes your job easier maybe, I don't know, and I don't care, as I do not have to deal with them where you are at.

Fact is ....you are not everywhere working in every state everyday with every HI. Too bad....15+ years working with the good ones, does not equate to you being the expert with the rest of the other locals.

In my 25+ years in the trade...I too have found good ones along with the bad ones. Still does not change my mind on the requirements for them to work.

My 'ignorant' statement still stands. Since we have many municipalities here, each with their own varying requirements for code acceptance, it is foolish to have a HI make blanket request/advisements to the HO. Many times I have had required repairs as stated by the HI, that where not needed, existing met code,etc.
Try to explain to HO's that we are saving them $$$. Yet...because someone with the title 'Inspector' in their name, it appears they know more than a Licensed Electrician, (state tested and passed) a HO winds up paying for work not needed.

Yes the AHJ should be involved for the very reasons stated above.

As far as hurting from the times and doing HI's....no I don't want to do them, let others do it...but....know what the heck you are doing. Period!

Glad you stopped by for a moment....come again when you want to breath the air we lower garbage folks do.:roll:

(my tag line is a great example of folks I deal with...you can join the ranks of you want, won't hurt my feelings)

 

[LarryFine]

Can someone explain to me the safety hazard a bad HI creates?

When there are glaring, dangerous, and even fire-causing issues with a service that recently received a rave review is one example.

Granted, he didn't cause the issues, but he didn't do anyone any favors by his neglectful omissions (unless you include the sellers.)

 

[cschmid]

I am happy to see the discussion. The reason I picked safety was the unqualified doing electrical work. I do not want to do home inspections but an HI can not tell me if the furnace is bad, nor can he tell me if the plumbing is wrong, nor can he tell me if the electrical is unsafe. They do not know the codes for the current session non the less the previous ten cycles. They only state the obvious and perform tests they have no idea what the results say and then work up the home owner and cost the home owner cash by either disclosing bad information or causing distress which leads to unnecessary cash being spent. The HI has no Liabilities and is never held responsible yet they make cash doing work that is regulated by the state. That is accepting cash for consulting and inspect for regulated trades.

You have to sign disclosures that make you liable for selling a house knowingly having problems. so why the need for another person cutting into the profits of a home sale when it benefits no one and they have no liability for anything. I think it is wrong because they except cash for electrical work which requires a license.