Home inspections

[cschmid]

Bob my question is you have to sign releases guaranteeing the quality of most items. Like no structural defects, mold, and others.. so why then do you need an HI? If you are signing releases without having the proper tests then you are liable. So why let someone who is not qualify bash your house?

You should have your furnace checked yearly so whats wrong with the report from that on the condition of your furnace and HVAC system? If you can not produce a furnace inspection report then that says something right there.

It is pretty common knowledge that a GFCI is required in the kitchen, bathroom and outside as it has been a requirement for over 25 years now (do not know the exact date) but it is common knowledge.

You sign a release form garunteeing that there is no structural defects and no mold issues and there are more releases that need to be signed or at least in this state there is, so the seller has responsibility.

All the HI does is take money from the seller in more ways then one. So is the HI going to eliminate the need for releases and relieve the home owners responsibility? If no then again why should the HI be allowed to cause the home owner to loose cash on a sale or cost the owner a sale and not be responsible.

If there is a concern on the electrical then have an inspection I remember reading that there are inspectors looking for something to do? So go ahead and let the unqualified do your work who is loosing? at least if a qualified person inspected the home he could actually see if there are real safety hazards.

So my question is again why do we allow other to keep taking work from us?

Do other states require the home owner to sign form guaranteeing some of the conditions of their home?

 

[cowboyjwc]

I don't think this debate has an answer or even the remote chance of having an answer.

How many of us have painted our homes? Inside or out, doesn't matter.

Here in CA, I understand from people that have taken it that, the C-33 Painting and Decorating Contractors license is a real bugger of a test. One guy told me that you almost need to be a chemist to pass it.

Yet we run down to the big box store and buy rollers and paint, because how hard could it be and why should we pay some guy our hard earned money when we can just do it our selfs? I mean where do they get off charging that kind of money to just slap some paint on the wall?

We jump in and remodel our homes, scrape the popcorn ceilings and take up that original tile off the floor, asbestos? What asbestos?

Just because we're electricians doesn't mean we're better than everyone else, just means we're different. We just know different things than they do.

That's where that fine line thing comes in, yeah maybe it's not quite the same, spill some paint and ruin a room full of carpet or make a mistake and burn a house down, but just because someone is doing electrical work associated with another trade doens't mean he doesn't know what he's doing. You know that plumbers talk bad about all the home owners that change out their own water heaters.

Everytime "we" do something that's associated to another licensed trade, we're taking money out of someones pocket too.

 

[cschmid]

okay how did that happen?

Dang it I really need to learn more. I am sitting in hospital with my wife after her surgery.

I want to learn as much as possible on this subject so I can either adapt or make effective changes to the system. since this HI system is in all 50 states it is either a benefit or a business prying on others lack of knowledge.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

We do this regularly, we do the inspection and TESTING and write a letter with stipulations.

Such as; the electrical system was visually inspected and all conductors were meggered, the conductors meets applicable standards BUT this is system while colmplying with the NEC at the time of installation..........and what you feel at this point.

Brian
You do this regularly for dwellings?

What do you consider regularly?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

okay how did that happen?

Dang it I really need to learn more. I am sitting in hospital with my wife after her surgery.

I want to learn as much as possible on this subject so I can either adapt or make effective changes to the system. since this HI system is in all 50 states it is either a benefit or a business prying on others lack of knowledge.

I think you need to take a step back and look at the big picture...

HI services are like any other business in the US. There are good ones and there are bad ones. If you happen to come across the bad ones, do not think they are all like that.


I say get over it and concentrate on how to make our industry that much better...a task more than worthy.

 

[cowboyjwc]

okay how did that happen?

Dang it I really need to learn more. I am sitting in hospital with my wife after her surgery.

Well shoot, you didn't mention that. Hope that everything is OK.

 

[cschmid]

my wifes surgery went well. She has had a little set back due to an reaction to the anesthesia but all is going okay.

You know as the HI industry grows and becomes more politically solid they will regulate cash right out of the real estate market. If we do not compete we will loose a complete market for us.

So I believe if we do not stop letting other regulate certain aspects of our industry we are going to let them regulate business right out of our pockets willingly.

Come on you can not tell me as you reach retirement age you could not go around and inspect electrical for home owners to supplement your income. While either employed by a contractor to do this or self employeed and offer a more professional opinion.

You really think they inspect 500,000 dollar home for couple hundred bucks. how about a condo worth 250,000 in a controlled building do they need HI inspection no but given enough time it will be regulated in as well..Lets seize this opportunity together for our industry.

 

[roger]

Come on you can not tell me as you reach retirement age you could not go around and inspect electrical for home owners to supplement your income. While either employed by a contractor to do this or self employeed and offer a more professional opinion.

You really think they inspect 500,000 dollar home for couple hundred bucks. how about a condo worth 250,000 in a controlled building do they need HI inspection no but given enough time it will be regulated in as well..Lets seize this opportunity together for our industry.

Here's a suggestion, become a HI, you will be making the big bucks and your blood pressure will also go down.:grin:

IOW's, you are not going to be able to get rid of them so just go ahead and join them.

Roger

 

[iwire]

Bob my one of my points are is you have to sign releases guaranteeing the quality of most items. Like no structural defects, mold, and others.. so why then do you need an HI? If you are signing releases without having the proper tests then you are liable.

I have no idea what you mean, who is signing what for who?

So why let someone who is not qualify bash your house?

That is you're opinion, in my opinion many HIs are quilfied enought to look at electric work.

You should have your furnace checked yearly so whats wrong with the report from that on the condition of your furnace and HVAC system?

Becuse the banks in my area do not accept that, they expect HI reports:grin:

So go ahead and let the unqualified do your work who is loosing? at least if a qualified person inspected the home he could actually see if there are real safety hazards.

And again IMPO HIs (most) are more then qualified to look at electrical work and give an opinion. Not a code inspection an opinion.

So my question is again why do we allow other to keep taking work from us?

If you elminated HIs tommorow I doubt you would see 'our' work load increase, I bet it would be reduced.

When HIs identify a problem ECs are called in to repair them.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Roger
Did you say the "BIG BUCKS"?

Where do I sign up.

 

[roger]

Roger
Did you say the "BIG BUCKS"?

Where do I sign up.

:grin:

Roger

 

[cschmid]

Bob thanks for the laugh..

Here when you sell a house you have to sign disclosure statements ensuring that you house meets certain criteria which in turn makes the seller liable to the new owner for any major items like if your house was used as a math lab or you have a serious mold issue or that your furnace is burned out and exhaust co into the house stuff like that.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Roger
Did you say the "BIG BUCKS"?

Where do I sign up.

It's actually not bad money. I don't know what the guy I work with charges, but I get $100 to poke around someones house for an hour. Made a little more when we did an apartment building, but again for the amount of work it's not bad money, maybe a couple of font sizes smaller. Oh, and I only look at electrical he does everything else.

 

[c2500]

While I have read all the posts, I do detect a recurring theme of under qualified HI's. I met one recently. Nice guy actually. An unemployeed engineer. He got in the HI business because there were no jobs available in his field of engineering (which I don't recall the type he was). Anyway, he had no idea about electrical...other than to say he knew if it did not look right. He had no understanding that a sub panel was required to be 4 wire. I had to explain the reasoning behind it.

There is not much of a barrier to entry in the HI field. There is far more of a barrier to get into to electrical, plumbing, or HVAC. On the residential side in SC, you have to be signed off on by a licened person and have 1-2 years experience.

My overall experience is that you don't get much for the $300-$400 you pay. The state required form, in addition to the disclaimers, equates to you learning every potential problem that might ever happen. Galvanized pipes??? Watch out they will rust out. Really? Who would have thunk it.

A job I did in the summer the HI at least noted the rust in the panel...(missing weatherhead cap, trashed the whole panel) and had the sense to have an electrician check it. He did miss the rotten ceiling joist though, where the rotten studs were poorly fixed. Oh and the rotten floor around the toilet, that was in plain site in the basement. Oh well...more money for me.

We, as an industry, cannot stop this type generalized evaluation of a property. Banks want them, realtors find the easy ones to work with, and sadly a lot of people get screwed over. We cannot stop unlicensed trunk slammers. We cannot stop those unlicensed folks that advertise online.

Remember that banks love appriasals too...and look at where that got them.

The best thing we can do is to somehow group together and educate/scare lenders and homeowners that they need a seperate electrical inspection that no HI could ever provide legally (barring multiple licenses of course).

I'll get off the soap box now....

c2500

 

[cschmid]

good morning..no need to get off the box..I am thinking we need to promote the electrical portion of the HI's inspection be subcontracted to electricians, not only will the inspection be done by licensed individuals but will be performed safely and professionally. If we do not start saying "stop it" that must be done by licensed professionals we are going to continue to loose a bigger portion of business. we must join together and promote it in every state for it to work. We must all be on the same page.

 

[BMacky]

We do this regularly, we do the inspection and TESTING and write a letter with stipulations.

Such as; the electrical system was visually inspected and all conductors were meggered, the conductors meets applicable standards BUT this is system while colmplying with the NEC at the time of installation..........and what you feel at this point.

Hey Brian John,

Thanks for your response to my query. It helped.

Happy Holidays out there on the east coast!!

Bob

 

[electricmanscott]

good morning..no need to get off the box..I am thinking we need to promote the electrical portion of the HI's inspection be subcontracted to electricians, not only will the inspection be done by licensed individuals but will be performed safely and professionally..

That is just nonsense. First off, I would rather work alongside some of the home inspectors I know instead of some of the electricians I know. A license guarantees nothing. Secondly, the better contractors are going to be too busy to bother with home inspections.

If we do not start saying "stop it" that must be done by licensed professionals we are going to continue to loose a bigger portion of business. we must join together and promote it in every state for it to work. We must all be on the same page.

Exactly what is it that makes you think that certain people have an exclusive right to certain work?

As I already mentioned, a license guarantees nothing. Residential wiring isn't rocket science. I know alot of guys here would not want to admit it, or won't let their egos admit it, It isn't that difficult. Look in the mirror. That face you see is easily replaceable.

Just my opinion.

 

[pfalcon]

... HI's only inspect the obvious which does make it a safety inspection...SO why again do we allow others who are unqualified do electrical work? do you believe it is okay to allow anyone in a 200 amp panel?...

Although safety issues are part of the inspection; this doesn't make it electrical work. I agree if he is pulling off the panel front he is in the wrong. But opening the little door and giving it a look over without removing the front plate is a sanity check not electrical work.

Bob my one of my points are is you have to sign releases guaranteeing the quality of most items... So my question is again why do we allow other to keep taking work from us?

Signing the releases does not guarantee anything in Indiana. They all say "To the best of my knowledge ..." in front of them. Three options are given: Good, Bad, I have no idea. Everyone I have seen taken to court over these forms has been over a failure to provide the filled out form. I've never seen anyone held to their answers. It's tough to prove an electrically stupid person knew there were electrical problems.

...You know as the HI industry grows and becomes more politically solid they will regulate cash right out of the real estate market...

My great fear is that the government will regulate the industry. At that point it would be cheaper to hire all the individual trades to inspect. The government would give the HI a percentage of the house value in profit while giving them immunity from mistakes.

...Here when you sell a house you have to sign disclosure statements ensuring that you house meets certain criteria which in turn makes the seller liable to the new owner for any major items...

Again, here in Indiana there is no liability if you fill out the form. You are only asserting that you do or do not know of any existing problems.

 

[cschmid]

interesting. the forms are pretty much the same here only ever known one person to go to court and it was over a roof issue and they won got new roof out of deal.

HI's already are organized and some states regulate them some even make them have a liability rate. soon they will be making inspections on commercial properties as well.

I still think allowing other trades to get into running circuits, inspecting and recommending solutions is wrong. I will try my best in MN to stop the progression of other trades from opening up panels to install circuits and having unqualified inspectors from making recommendations. the best I can do I find it Ironic the double standard.

 

[nakulak]

Bob thanks for the laugh..

Here when you sell a house you have to sign disclosure statements ensuring that you house meets certain criteria which in turn makes the seller liable to the new owner for any major items like if your house was used as a math lab or you have a serious mold issue or that your furnace is burned out and exhaust co into the house stuff like that.

Actually, the local school district would probably love the heck out of you if you turned your house into a math lab !