Life safety panels in a high rise

[mshields]

In a high rise, can a life safety panel on say the 5th floor, feed loads on say the 9th floor? i.e. is there a requirement for how far away the source can be?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

In a high rise, can a life safety panel on say the 5th floor, feed loads on say the 9th floor? i.e. is there a requirement for how far away the source can be?

that's a good question that maybe someone else can answer more clearly and depend alot on you local AHJ. I will say that I've seen lots of multiple story buildings that only have emergency panels on every other floor, or every third floor.

 

[charlie b]

First, let's be clear about our terms. If this is not a hospital, I don't think the phrase "life safety" applies. I suspect you are talking about egress lighting, and therefore this is an "emergency load." If that is correct, there is no rule against powering a light on one floor from a panel on another floor. I often provide emergency lighting panels that serve the floor they are on, plus the floor above, plus the floor below.

 

[STHOMAS]

Are you questioning the locations of "life safety panels" meaning fire alarm panels?

Then yes you can locate remote panels anywhere that voltage calcs determine they are needed. The main FACP is required to be located in a fire command room on the first floor.

Make sure the spec does not require remote panels to be located to serve a specific maximum number of floors.

 

[mshields]

your input

your input

This is not a hospital so yes we are talking about the "emergency system" and yes my concern is the emergency lighting.

I do alot of hospital work and know that in a hospital you can't be more than a floor away for life safety. I also have done a lot of high rises where we routinely have emergency electric rooms on every other floor.

What prompted the question is an existing condition I've run into where the emergency panel is 7 stories below. So I've got a 2 hour rated (2 hours is required in MA) feeder to a panel 7 stories below and then I've got my branch circuits carrying the emergency power with no fire rating up 7 stories. Doesn't strike me as good engineering practice which I realize no one is arguing. But I gather what I'm hearing is, that this is neverthelss NOT a code violation. True?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[mshields]

emergency vs life safety

emergency vs life safety

Interesting input Charlie on the terms emergency vs life safety. So I gather you only use the term life safety in a hospital situation to differentiate between the two types of emergency power that exists for a hospital. For a non-hospital since there is no division of the emergency system, it is appropriately referred to as the emergency system. Correct?

thanks,

Mike

 

[ibew501ed]

on a similar subject
700.9 states emergency circuits shall be independent of all other wiring.(no emergency and normal in the same conduit) but it list 4 exceptions , other than the transfer switch can anyone help clarify the other 3 examples

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

on a similar subject
700.9 states emergency circuits shall be independent of all other wiring.(no emergency and normal in the same conduit) but it list 4 exceptions , other than the transfer switch can anyone help clarify the other 3 examples

One of the examples would be a unit type fixture, such as a 2-lamp emergency wall pack. Another would be the junction box that has the wiring supplying such a fixture as mentioned in my first sentence.

 

[ibew501ed]

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One of the examples would be a unit type fixture, such as a 2-lamp emergency wall pack. Another would be the junction box that has the wiring supplying such a fixture as mentioned in my first sentence.

Wouldn't that wiring simply be fed by an em circuit

or would it have normal and em in the same JB or fixture

 

[skeshesh]

But I gather what I'm hearing is, that this is neverthelss NOT a code violation. True?

I can't think of a code violation, not that I disagree with the design approach by Charlie and others, but if absolutely can't work around it for whatever reason (conserving money, space? who knows) I don't think its a requirement.

Interesting input Charlie on the terms emergency vs life safety. So I gather you only use the term life safety in a hospital situation to differentiate between the two types of emergency power that exists for a hospital. For a non-hospital since there is no division of the emergency system, it is appropriately referred to as the emergency system. Correct?

I think the life safety circuits in a hospital are covered by NEC 7001 (legally required standby) if I remember correctly. An emergency system may be used in addition per article 700 (Emergency). If your generation means are big enough you may combine them, I believe, but there may be some nuances such as wiring to be worked out (i.e. I think the wiring for emergency circuits still has to be seperate while the LRS circuit may occupy the same raceway as normal power). I'm also not sure if you have to implement load shedding in that case in order to isolate the Life Safety loads in case of losing power capcity for whatever reason.

I'm sure Charlie can give us a bit more detail on the issue.

 

[charlie b]

I think the life safety circuits in a hospital are covered by NEC 701 (legally required standby) if I remember correctly. An emergency system may be used in addition per article 700 (Emergency).

The "essential electrical system," including the life safety branch, the critical branch, and the equipment system, all come under article 700. Reference: 517.26.

 

[charlie b]

So I gather you only use the term life safety in a hospital situation to differentiate between the two types of emergency power that exists for a hospital. For a non-hospital since there is no division of the emergency system, it is appropriately referred to as the emergency system. Correct?

Quite correct.

 

[ibew501ed]

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One of the examples would be a unit type fixture, such as a 2-lamp emergency wall pack. Another would be the junction box that has the wiring supplying such a fixture as mentioned in my first sentence.

is this fixture wired with normal power and a local battery backup
or normal power and em power