branch entering other building

[charlie b]

now .... how about for a lighting circuit originating outside the house and going into the house and in no way fed from the house? Need a disconnect? what kind? 3 or 4 way OK?

Are you changing the subject? That is not the installation the OP originally described. In the original post, power to the garage lights goes through the house, but it ultimately started at the house.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Are you changing the subject? That is not the installation the OP originally described. In the original post, power to the garage lights goes through the house, but it ultimately started at the house.

Yes, I think he wants to know if it would be allowed if there were 2 services instead of one. It changes things.:grin:

 

[charlie b]

OK. I see it now. Tricky subject. You have power to the garage and to the house under separate services. You have lights in the garage controlled with 3-way switches, one of which is inside the house. You are bringing power into the house at two separate locations, but you are not using power in the house in the second one, since the load being controlled is a garage light. Is that a violation of the "one source only rule"? I think it is. The house has its own service, so nothing in 225 will apply. It does not meet any of the sub-articles of 230.2. So you can't do it at all, and the question of whether a 3-way switch could count as a disconnecting means no longer matters.

 

[realolman]

Yes, I think he wants to know if it would be allowed if there were 2 services instead of one. It changes things.:grin:

Exactly... I think everyone ( even knuckleheads like me ) is in agreement about the OP.

If I have a garage and a house, each with it's own service, there's no code compliant way I can control a light, or a heater, or nuthin' in the garage from the house?. ....or vice versa?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You could have a switch by the main service that disconnects the 3 way switch-- a DP switch before it enters the house. This would comply with 225.31 and 225.32.

My feeling is if the 3 way is fed at the garage then the traveler would be the only conductors that would need be fed thru a switch at the house.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

OK. I see it now. Tricky subject. You have power to the garage and to the house under separate services. You have lights in the garage controlled with 3-way switches, one of which is inside the house. You are bringing power into the house at two separate locations, but you are not using power in the house in the second one, since the load being controlled is a garage light. Is that a violation of the "one source only rule"? I think it is. The house has its own service, so nothing in 225 will apply. It does not meet any of the sub-articles of 230.2. So you can't do it at all, and the question of whether a 3-way switch could count as a disconnecting means no longer matters.

225.30 (D) would seem to apply. Control of outside lighting from multiple locations.

 

[charlie b]

225.30 (D) would seem to apply. Control of outside lighting from multiple locations.

You may have missed my opening statement in post #14. These are not "outside lights."

 

[One-eyed Jack]

You may have missed my opening statement in post #14. These are not "outside lights."

Let me include everything. Different Characteristics Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for different voltages,frequencies,or phases or for different uses,such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations. You are right I did miss "not outside lights". The outside lights is a for instance but it is not meant to be the only thing . OK, I see this has been argued in previous post with no agreement.

 

[realolman]

Let me include everything. Different Characteristics Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for different voltages,frequencies,or phases or for different uses,such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations. You are right I did miss "not outside lights". The outside lights is a for instance but it is not meant to be the only thing .

I'm wondering if that wouldn't be a valid interpretation of the rules for the example I asked about.

At first I thought it was not, but it seems to make more sense to allow a circuit here or there for miscellaneous uses or needs that may arise between buildings that have seperate services , than to not allow any circuits at all. Seems that there would have to be lots of those kinds of needs or desires around the country.

But then again, I'm right back to 225.31... you can do that stuff but you gotta have a disconnecting means.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Wouldn't 230.2(E) apply then if the three way was fed from the house and signage would be needed.

 

[curt swartz]

I have a sub panel im installing in a garage it is only 6 spaces this doesnt require a main breaker. Right?

I just quickly scanned through this thread but I doubt your panel is listed as suitable for service equipment without a main breaker installed. Remember 225.36 requires your disconnect to be suitable for service equipment.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I just quickly scanned through this thread but I doubt your panel is listed as suitable for service equipment without a main breaker installed. Remember 225.36 requires your disconnect to be suitable for service equipment.

Curt I have never seen a 6 cir panel or larger not be listed for Service Equip. Have you?

 

[curt swartz]

Dennis, if you look at the label on most loadcenters it will state that they are suitable for service equipment if a main breaker is installed. Some of them state they are suitable for service equipment is not more that 2 service disconnecting means are installed.

 

[GSXR600]

well this is not considered a service. right? its a sub panel

 

[One-eyed Jack]

well this is not considered a service. right? its a sub panel

By definition I would not consider it a service. On another note. Use a radio receiver and two remote transmitters to control the lighting in garage. Problem solved. One supply to garage and infinite way control of the lighting.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

well this is not considered a service. right? its a sub panel

That's right however take a look at the article below. It does not need to be a service.

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment.
The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.
Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.

 

[shaw0486]

Just followed up with square d and MLO load centers are not rated for service equipment. So the panel would be in violation.