210.5(c)

[nyhockey]

So does this meen that at each switch and rec. if we are useing 2 wire MC Cable we must color code each location?

 

[infinity]

Here's Mike's explanation:

 

[nyhockey]

Here's Mike's explanation:

He says each branch circuit

 

[infinity]

The requirement is to identify the ungrounded conductors by system when more than one system exists in a building. So in Mike's example you could use BOY for the 277/480 and B,R,Bl, for the 208/120 volt systems. You're free to use any combination of those colors as long a they're consistent. So if you used the Blk, Red, Blu colors for the 208/120 volt system you couldn't also use an orange conductor on that system. The grounded condcutors have their own requirements outlined in Article 200 as noted in 210.5(A).

 

[nyhockey]

The requirement is to identify the ungrounded conductors by system when more than one system exists in a building. So in Mike's example you could use BOY for the 277/480 and B,R,Bl, for the 208/120 volt systems. You're free to use any combination of those colors as long a they're consistent. So if you used the Blk, Red, Blu colors for the 208/120 volt system you couldn't also use an orange conductor on that system. The grounded condcutors have their own requirements outlined in Article 200 as noted in 210.5(A).

So back to my question at each rec. you must color code?

 

[cadpoint]

You're free to use any combination of those colors as long a they're consistent.

I beleive that if a service has quailified personnal, and maintained by such that it could be any combination. (Lay-man terms)

eg, If a shop set-up some colors and it's maintained by them that it's ok...

A piece of colored tape is what to the moments infront or finishing a termination!

 

[infinity]

So back to my question at each rec. you must color code?

Does the building have more than one voltage system? If so and you're using Black, Red, Blue for the receptacle system (208Y/120) your MC cable would be required to have a black, red or blue ungrounded conductor at the receptacle. Is this what you mean by "color code"?

 

[nyhockey]

Does the building have more than one voltage system? If so and you're using Black, Red, Blue for the receptacle system (208Y/120) your MC cable would be required to have a black, red or blue ungrounded conductor at the receptacle. Is this what you mean by "color code"?

Just starting to get in the 2008 NEC (NYC starts useing it this summer) and came up with this question.Using Black, Red, Blue for the receptacle system (208Y/120) your MC cable would be required to have a black, red or blue ungrounded conductor at the receptacle. With that being said now we go to 210.4(B) which is cimultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors. So we would rather then having to shut off all 3 circuits at once if we go with a 4 wire MC. We would go with 2 wire MC for each branch, but then we are going to have to color code all the locations.

If I am understanding this correctly

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Just starting to get in the 2008 NEC (NYC starts useing it this summer) and came up with this question.Using Black, Red, Blue for the receptacle system (208Y/120) your MC cable would be required to have a black, red or blue ungrounded conductor at the receptacle. With that being said now we go to 210.4(B) which is cimultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors. So we would rather then having to shut off all 3 circuits at once if we go with a 4 wire MC. We would go with 2 wire MC for each branch, but then we are going to have to color code all the locations.

If I am understanding this correctly

Yes, if there is more than one voltage system all of the ungrounded conductors, including switch legs, must be identified as to phase and voltage. The method of identification is not specified, but is required to be posted at each panel. If the specified method says the identification is by the use of the color of the conductor insulation, you will have to have NM or MC cable with the correct color conductor insulation. On a cable job, I would expect that you would specify two methods of phase and voltage identification. One would be by the use of colored conductor insulation and the second would be by the use of colored tape on a black conductor. That would let you use multiconductor cable with the correct colors an single conductor cable with tape to indicate the phase an voltage.

 

[nyhockey]

Yes, if there is more than one voltage system all of the ungrounded conductors, including switch legs, must be identified as to phase and voltage. The method of identification is not specified, but is required to be posted at each panel. If the specified method says the identification is by the use of the color of the conductor insulation, you will have to have NM or MC cable with the correct color conductor insulation. On a cable job, I would expect that you would specify two methods of phase and voltage identification. One would be by the use of colored conductor insulation and the second would be by the use of colored tape on a black conductor. That would let you use multiconductor cable with the correct colors an single conductor cable with tape to indicate the phase an voltage.

Wow. Get the tape ready and bigger neutral bars

 

[cadpoint]

Wow. Get the tape ready and bigger neutral bars

the tape matters, the neutral should be sized accordingly, and not El granda...

 

[nyhockey]

the tape matters, the neutral should be sized accordingly, and not El granda...

More 2 wire branches, less shareing of neutrals

 

[infinity]

We would go with 2 wire MC for each branch, but then we are going to have to color code all the locations.

If I am understanding this correctly

With LV 2 wire MC the ungrounded conductor is already black so no color coding will be required.

 

[nyhockey]

With LV 2 wire MC the ungrounded conductor is already black so no color coding will be required.

what about the red and blue phase?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

With LV 2 wire MC the ungrounded conductor is already black so no color coding will be required.

That is fine for A phase....

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So to get this straight I am to believe that because there are 2 systems available on the premise then we must color code all the recep and switch circuits with the proper color phases even if it is a 208/120 system.

We don't, however, have to do this if one system is on the premise. :-?:-?:-?

Makes no sense--

 

[infinity]

So to get this straight I am to believe that because there are 2 systems available on the premise then we must color code all the recep and switch circuits with the proper color phases even if it is a 208/120 system.

We don't, however, have to do this if one system is on the premise. :-?:-?:-?

Makes no sense--

You only need to color code by system. You can use all 2 wire MC cable with all of the ungrounded conductors having black insulation. The requirement is not to color code a black conductor another color if it happens to be on the red or blue phase.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You only need to color code by system. You can use all 2 wire MC cable with all of the ungrounded conductors having black insulation. The requirement is not to color code a black conductor another color if it happens to be on the red or blue phase.

Thank you. I thought Don was saying all phases needed markings.

 

[ibew501ed]

That is fine for A phase....

You only need to color code by system. You can use all 2 wire MC cable with all of the ungrounded conductors having black insulation. The requirement is not to color code a black conductor another color if it happens to be on the red or blue phase.

seems like you guys are at odds
fwiw I'm on with Infinity but clearly see where Don gets it

 

[iwire]

You only need to color code by system. You can use all 2 wire MC cable with all of the ungrounded conductors having black insulation. The requirement is not to color code a black conductor another color if it happens to be on the red or blue phase.

I have to disagree

2008 210.5(C) requires us to identify by 'phase or line and system'

We do not but IMO the NEC does require it.