Minimum pole height

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K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Shouldn't a power pole be at least tall enough to touch the conductor it is meant to support?

I found this in rural Michigan.

The adjacent poles are on higher ground than the pole in the picture. Also, it was 35 degrees the day I shot this.

Either the pole had sunk into the ground or the conductors contracted.

It will be interesting to see if the line expands in the summer and if the insulator finds it's way back to it's stand-off unaided.
 

mivey

Senior Member
Homework

Homework

Let's assume that we have 4/0 ACSR, the spans are 200 ft, and the conductor as shown is 2ft above the position it should be, and that both conductors were sagged the same, and the cross-arms are relatively level and poles are relatively straight, and there is no ice.

1) At what temperature will the conductor return to a normal position?
2) What is the existing tension at 120?F?
3) What would the tension have to be at 120?F to avoid uplift down to zero degrees and what would the tension be at zero degrees?

For extra credit:
Approximately how many pounds of pull is being exerted on the unbroken insulator at 35?F?


I'll post the answers later if no one wants to venture a guess (unless I forget).
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Let's assume that we have 4/0 ACSR, the spans are 200 ft, and the conductor as shown is 2ft above the position it should be, and that both conductors were sagged the same, and the cross-arms are relatively level and poles are relatively straight, and there is no ice.

1) At what temperature will the conductor return to a normal position?
2) What is the existing tension at 120?F?
3) What would the tension have to be at 120?F to avoid uplift down to zero degrees and what would the tension be at zero degrees?

For extra credit:
Approximately how many pounds of pull is being exerted on the unbroken insulator at 35?F?


I'll post the answers later if no one wants to venture a guess (unless I forget).

You left out a question. Had the insulator held up ,at what temperature would the pole came out of the ground?
 
Let's assume that we have 4/0 ACSR, the spans are 200 ft, and the conductor as shown is 2ft above the position it should be, and that both conductors were sagged the same, and the cross-arms are relatively level and poles are relatively straight, and there is no ice.

1) At what temperature will the conductor return to a normal position?
2) What is the existing tension at 120?F?
3) What would the tension have to be at 120?F to avoid uplift down to zero degrees and what would the tension be at zero degrees?

For extra credit:
Approximately how many pounds of pull is being exerted on the unbroken insulator at 35?F?


I'll post the answers later if no one wants to venture a guess (unless I forget).

1. True
2. True
3. False

Since I aced these 3 I won't even attempt the extra credit:D
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
You left out a question. Had the insulator held up ,at what temperature would the pole came out of the ground?

The old glass insulators are not secured to the pole. They just sit on a stand off. They look like upside down bowls.

There is a hardware store a few miles from the picture that still sells them. They also still have, new in the box, tubes for K&T wiring.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
The old glass insulators are not secured to the pole. They just sit on a stand off. They look like upside down bowls.

There is a hardware store a few miles from the picture that still sells them. They also still have, new in the box, tubes for K&T wiring.

I had saved some of the old tubes and knobs but dont got anymore. Nice to know i can buy some. Are they still 4 cents each ?
 

mivey

Senior Member
Answers

Answers

Let's assume that we have 4/0 ACSR, the spans are 200 ft, and the conductor as shown is 2ft above the position it should be, and that both conductors were sagged the same, and the cross-arms are relatively level and poles are relatively straight, and there is no ice.

1) At what temperature will the conductor return to a normal position?
2) What is the existing tension at 120?F?
3) What would the tension have to be at 120?F to avoid uplift down to zero degrees and what would the tension be at zero degrees?

For extra credit:
Approximately how many pounds of pull is being exerted on the unbroken insulator at 35?F?


I'll post the answers later if no one wants to venture a guess (unless I forget).
Seeing no takers, here is what I came up with:
First, it was tough to find 2ft of uplift with a reasonable span length and temperature ranges so I looked at the picture closer. It looks closer to 1.5 ft and the wire looks closer to 1/0 ACSR. I based this on the width and height of the exposed pin as compared to the wire. The pin is probably about 5/8" wide and about 6" tall (above the cross-arm).

Also, with an ambient of 35?F, the current in the wire could add another 15 degrees or so, depending on the loading, sun, wind, etc., but for simplicity sake, I'm picking a conductor temp of 35?F in the picture.

With that, we have the following for the conductor final state:
1) At what temperature will the conductor return to a normal position: With 2.94 ft of sag at 35? and tension of 988 lb, we have 4.43 ft of sag at 81?F and a tension of 656 lb at the "normal" position

2) What is the existing tension at 120?F: 576 lb with a sag of 5.05 ft.

3) What would the tension have to be at 120?F to avoid uplift down to zero degrees and what would the tension be at zero degrees: 375 lb and 7.76 ft of sag at 120?. 656 lb and 4.43 ft of sag at 0?.

Extra credit: 14.7 lb
 

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
The old glass insulators are not secured to the pole. They just sit on a stand off. They look like upside down bowls.

There is a hardware store a few miles from the picture that still sells them. They also still have, new in the box, tubes for K&T wiring.

Not always sir, the majority of power line insulators, even the glass ones, are threaded into a wooden pin. Now the PINS are simply press-fit into a hoke in the crossarms.

There is an insulator collectors website that I browse that has info and all kinds of great pics, it's HERE

Check out the "Picture Posters Gallery" near the bottom of the page.
 
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