A Simple Plan

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iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
George Stolz said:
So, essentially, there's someone at the power company telling my customer that I am overcharging,
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I had a very similar situation a couple of months ago. It took a lot of calls to find the power companies engineers supervisor but when I did I was able to explain my problem to him. He admitted they had problems with this guy before and agreed to assign a different engineer to the project. The new engineer was entirely different and very helpful.
 
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milehiwire

Banned
If you were not going to increase the service size then I am not sure why you would want to replace the meter and overhead?

You could still pull a permit for the panel replacement.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
George Stolz said:
So, essentially, there's someone at the power company telling my customer that I am overcharging, doing more work than is necessary ostensibly to drive up that bill, and that I should have illegally performed a panel change on the quiet with no inspection.

How would you react? :)
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To be honest the customer probably can find someone that will change out that panel without an inspection for less money.

I would tell the customer this and let him know that I don't have to be responsible for work done by others but I do have to be responsible for work that I do so I only feel comfortable in doing the work in a legal manner and if he wants it done as the engineer suggested then he will have to find someone else to do the work.

Some jurisdictions will allow the panel to be replaced where it is if you permit it as a repair job. It won't be to code but it wasn't to code to start with and you haven't created any further code violations. You may want to talk to your AHJ about this.
 
M

milehiwire

Banned
My question remains:

If the service size was not going to be increased then why the need for a change in meter and overhead supply?
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
zappy said:
It's just going to end up he said she said garbage. I don't think you'll get anywhere complaining to the guys boss. JMO.
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That's very possible, but, if it happened as stated, this is probably a pattern and if no one speaks out other E/Cs will get the same treatment.
The boss may not act but he can certainly take note.
 
readydave8

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
Several times a poco employee has commented on the quality of my work or on my prices to the customer. The uniform gives credibility, the customer thinks that since electricity comes from them, they know what they're talking about. Sometimes its just a guy who runs a shovel, but they still think he knows what he's talking about.
 
M

milehiwire

Banned
readydave8 said:
Several times a poco employee has commented on the quality of my work or on my prices to the customer. The uniform gives credibility, the customer thinks that since electricity comes from them, they know what they're talking about. Sometimes its just a guy who runs a shovel, but they still think he knows what he's talking about.
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Maybe a uniform would give you more credibility?

Just a thought.
 
mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
I've replaced panels like this before in time of emergency.. I did one two months ago in Richmond. The meter base had a lock on it due to payment problems in the past. I called them and told them there was an electrical emergency and I needed meter pulled. They had their lock off by 10:00 am. By 12:00, I had old fuse panel out, new breaker panel in, trimmed 6" off SE conductors from burn damage, and fired the new panel up the same day.
 
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Lonestar06

Member
I also agree that you are going to have problems with this customer. Once a customer thinks your prices are too high, they are difficult to satisfy. I also would never take the word of a customer to repeat what a AHJ had to say. Call the engineer and verify what he told the owner.
 
T

Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
zappy said:
It's just going to end up he said she said garbage. I don't think you'll get anywhere complaining to the guys boss. JMO.[/QUOT

Why not buy a safety inspection and let the A H J,
tell what he will accept.Then the engineer and the inspector can work out what is an acceptable solution to this problem. You should have a code compliant install by going this route.As well as taking some heat off you.
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George Stolz

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Guys, thanks for all the replies. :cool:

zbang said:
Send an email to the poco engineer to "confirm his discussion w/ the customer" since you're now confused about the requirements and need to hear it from him directly.
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Did that first thing when I got back on Friday. :)

mivey said:
If you do not, I understand as there are not enough hours in a lifetime to fix everything and sometimes we just have other things to do that are higher up on the job list.
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That's probably how it's looking.

iwire said:
...agreed to assign a different engineer to the project. The new engineer was entirely different and very helpful.
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I actually tried to keep this fellow out of the picture, but was immediately directed to him. I'm not quite sure what the other guys do, but apparently this guy is our go-to guy.

This happens to be the same guy I might have dropped an unkind email to back in April, perhaps he has not forgiven that yet. :)

kbsparky said:
I don't understand the part where the POCO refuses to allow you to mount the service drop and meter box on the house? What's with this??:-?
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If they do not have a specification showing the installation, then their reflex reaction is to deny the installation - which was the cause of a previous unkind email. :D

I had a run-in with him in the past, when I completed a service installation to code, had it pass inspection with one of the toughest inspection agencies around, and then had the POCO refuse to energize it because it didn't match any of their drawings. Who needs a code book when you have a picture book, right? :)

milehiwire said:
My question remains:

If the service size was not going to be increased then why the need for a change in meter and overhead supply?
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This service is now in Plan D. Originally, I was not going to upgrade the service. When they forced me underground, I figured if everything was going to be new, then I might as well kick it up to 200A.

Now, it'll be back down to 100A again.

zappy said:
It's just going to end up he said she said garbage. I don't think you'll get anywhere complaining to the guys boss. JMO.
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Agreed. There is also the question of getting the customer involved in the middle of something unnecessarily. Over time I have been kicked around enough by people in charge, that they are finally breaking my spirit. It doesn't matter how right I am about anything; if the person in charge is wrong, and the person subject to that authority presses their case, 99 times out of 100 (at least for me) I still lose the argument and wind up getting punished for the next dozen encounters.

I'm sick of it, I've seen it time and time again, and I've yet to win.
 
K

K2500

Senior Member
Location
Texas
George Stolz said:
Agreed. There is also the question of getting the customer involved in the middle of something unnecessarily. Over time I have been kicked around enough by people in charge, that they are finally breaking my spirit. It doesn't matter how right I am about anything; if the person in charge is wrong, and the person subject to that authority presses their case, 99 times out of 100 (at least for me) I still lose the argument and wind up getting punished for the next dozen encounters.

I'm sick of it, I've seen it time and time again, and I've yet to win.
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Losing the argument isn't the reason for the punishment, but for having the audacity to win it.
 
mjf

mjf

Senior Member
Location
The incredible, yet very expensive, Hudson Valley,
local POCO

local POCO

milehiwire said:
If you were not going to increase the service size then I am not sure why you would want to replace the meter and overhead?

You could still pull a permit for the panel replacement.
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My local POCO will not allow me to reuse A-frame meters or old cloth covered SE wire. Had a house fire rewire last summer. Wanted to swap the old screw in 100 amp for a 100 amp breaker panel. the meter and old SE cable were undamaged and in great condition, but local POCO said they MUST be replaced.
 
J

jimmyglen

Senior Member
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
zbang said:
Send an email to the poco engineer to "confirm his discussion w/ the customer" since you're now confused about the requirements and need to hear it from him directly.

ETA: I hate catching people out, but when it's something like this, I'll make an exception.
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this is what I would do - good advice
 
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