Electronic Article Surveillance

[aftershock]

Today I installed and wired 20 8' florescent strip lights at a clothing store. 10 on each side running the length of the store. 4 circuits, 5 lights on each circuit. Circuits leave panel in thier own raceway. When I turn on the lights, it causes the EAS to alarm.

I had a service call a few weeks back for the same clothing store chain, different store location. The EAS at this particular store was acting the same way. A technician at the clothing store's central office told me that the EAS needs to be on it's own circuit, with an isolated ground. At this particular store it was on it's own circuit with an isolated ground but was still acting up. I never knew what became of that particular issue but having this happen today as stated in the first paragraph I got reminded of it.

What could be causing this interference? Is there something on my end that I need to be looking at or is it a common problem with these EAS equipment?

I cant bill the customer for these lights until I find out what is causing this problem.

 

[nhfire77]

I don't think you can be responsible for the EAS having false alarms. The EAS is faulty, not your new lights.

That is an old EAS and needs to be upgraded anyway. Has the EAS company come out and confirmed that it is false alarming from your work? I would be under the impression that the false alarm is a conincidence, not your fault until proven otherwise, but that's me

Although it sounds like you are dealing with some bull headed corporate stiff not allowing you to bill.

Try to get their internal facility manager to hear you out, normally they have prior trade experience, and will realize it's the EAS having a problem not your lighting. Just make sure your work is 100% before doing that.

The EAS being on an IG really really does not matter, IMHO.

 

[dbuckley]

I'm 90% sure I know why this is, and its nothing whatever to do with grounding; but first the question: are the fluoros fitted with electronic ballasts?

 

[aftershock]

Keep in mind that the second paragraph was just a service call to a store in the same chain as the one in the first paragraph.

We do know for a fact that the lights we installed and wired for are causing the EAS to sound the alarm. We turn on any one of the 4 breakers for our lights, wait about 90 seconds and the EAS will start sounding. Turn our breaker off and it will stop. Any breaker out of the 4 we have circuits in an y order and any quantity. Breaker(s) on alarm sounds, breaker(s) off and alarm stops. This tells me that those lights or some or all part of that circuits(s) is causing some sort of interference making the EAS sound off.

Im trying to find out how it is causing this and what can be done to stop this from happening. Right now, the only way to keep the EAS from sounding off is to keep the lights that we installed off. "Them lights look real good, too bad you cant turn them on. Here is your bill. Cash or check?"

 

[aftershock]

I'm 90% sure I know why this is, and its nothing whatever to do with grounding; but first the question: are the fluoros fitted with electronic ballasts?

Electronic I am almost sure. T8 bulbs, small light ballast.

 

[dbuckley]

When I turn my kitchen fluoro on, my TV loses reception of TV1.

Is that the fault of the TV, or the light?

The answer is.....

Its the light; when operating, it radiates energy at the same frequency as the TV1 broadcasts on, because its got a horrible electronic ballast.

I suspect your fluoros whilst being perfectly compliant with FCC regulations for use in a commercial area, are radiating RF energy that is being picked up by the EAS detectors.

To prove or disprove this, you need a RF field strength meter. Like this one:

Unfortunately, these lovely tools are about $2K. However, find a local large pro audio supply house, call them up, ask to speak with their radio mic wrangler and he'll probably have one which for a beer or two he'll come along and see how dirty the RF environment is with your lights on.

Problem is; I suspect it'll be the lights radiating at the same frequency that the EAS detectors run at, and thus you're (to put it simply) stuffed. You have an incompatibility between the lights and the EAS systems. The only real hope is that the interference may be being conducted through the wiring, in which case, chokes in the supply to the EAS might filter it out and allow harmony to be restored...

In America (and in NZ) they have poor EMC regs which allows this sort of nonsense to go on; in Europe my fluorescent light wouldn't be allowed to be sold.

 

[nhfire77]

Keep in mind that the second paragraph was just a service call to a store in the same chain as the one in the first paragraph.

We do know for a fact that the lights we installed and wired for are causing the EAS to sound the alarm. We turn on any one of the 4 breakers for our lights, wait about 90 seconds and the EAS will start sounding. Turn our breaker off and it will stop. Any breaker out of the 4 we have circuits in an y order and any quantity. Breaker(s) on alarm sounds, breaker(s) off and alarm stops. This tells me that those lights or some or all part of that circuits(s) is causing some sort of interference making the EAS sound off.

Im trying to find out how it is causing this and what can be done to stop this from happening. Right now, the only way to keep the EAS from sounding off is to keep the lights that we installed off. "Them lights look real good, too bad you cant turn them on. Here is your bill. Cash or check?"

The ballasts may be causing the problem, but are they operating normally? Nothing odd about the bulbs, flickering etc?

You cannot be responsible for a device that is completely unrelated to your scope of work. You must have had a written contract, you completed your end of the bargin. There EAS is false alarming, you never touched it. They need to have the EAS serviced.

Having said all that, I understand what you are saying. I would politely request that they have the EAS company inspect it. Maybe even mee them at the job and discuss their experiences with this kind of problem. They might find the system is actually broken and your ballasts have exasorbated the defect.

What else can you do, replace all the ballasts and bulbs, and try to return them? Can yoj imagine that conversation? "You installed them, they work, now you want to return them?". I am having trouble believing you are in the wrong here.

 

[aftershock]

My next step will be to have the store have someone look into the EAS. I want to make sure I have enough information to make my argument if needed. Most likely the electrical either to the EAS or to the lights will be blamed and eyes will be on me to make the corrections. Unless I can prove it is something I cannot control unless I remove/replace the lights we just installed or they filter the EAS or upgrade to one that can handle false alarm signals without sounding off.


The information so far in this thread is very helpful and the more info that better.

 

[cadpoint]

A technician at the clothing store's central office told me that the EAS needs to be on it's own circuit, with an isolated ground.

Everyone else anwsered! +

Give them a circuit just like anyone else, it should be labeled and marked and not easily turned off in the panel!

:roll: & what does that have to do with you doing your work ... tell him to start a P.O. :grin:

 

[ELA]

I was not familiar with the principles of operations of the EAS systems and so read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_article_surveillance

Looks like lots of different versions. It is interesting to read the sections on
false alarms and jamming.

I would suggest you work with the EAS supplier to understand their particular operational parameters. You can then try to filter out the offending frequency emitted by the electronic ballasts.
This could be costly since you would want to filter as close to the source as possible (at each ballast).

 

[cadpoint]

Pull the spec. sheets of the Heads and see what your up againest.