Adding a gang

[NewOnMyOwn]

I see so many innovative electrical products. With the higher costs of labor I see all kinds of labor saving products out there that truly amaze me. One thing that I never found is a way to add a gang on to an existing box.

When dealing with plaster walls and tightly strapped BX in older houses, it can be a real pain to remove an existing box to install a larger one.

Why can't they make a new work box sized to be installed next to an existing box and share a single cover plate? This way you wouldn't have to touch the old box or it's contents, just cutout next to it and run new cables to it.

Am I the only one who would like something like this?

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

Just do what hacks do and put a gem box up tight against an existing box, if you really hack it up hard enough you can get a plate on there, make sure you use a nylon plate so you can tweak it enough to get the plate on without cracking, the only side effect is that the new switch will be on an angle but who cares, right?

 

[480sparky]

I think the problem with something like that would be getting a listing for it.

 

[brantmacga]

you would not be able to maintain the fire rating for a box that could do this. if you were to keep it under the same wallplate, the walls of the box would be too thin. unless it was made out of some insanely expensive material.

 

[NewOnMyOwn]

you would not be able to maintain the fire rating for a box that could do this. if you were to keep it under the same wallplate, the walls of the box would be too thin. unless it was made out of some insanely expensive material.

I was thinking to simply offset one side of the box, have that side be a little closer to the screw. This way it would fit on the left side of the existing box, but need to be flipped around to fit on the right side.

Large devices like dimmers or timers might not fit but most normal or decora devices would.

 

[LarryFine]

There's only one right way to do it: replace the box and get paid.

Hany-men install a second switch box a couple of inches away.

 

[NewOnMyOwn]

There's only one right way to do it

Until one of the big manufacturers starts putting out the add a gang thing. Mark my words! :grin:

Hany-men install a second switch box a couple of inches away.

From what I've seen, most normal, licensed electrician do that too!

 

[laketime]

I put a second box in to avoid the possibility of the customer having to patch/paint the walls.

 

[480sparky]

Another problem is there are too many different types, styles and materials of boxes to create a single add-a-gang type contraption.

You may have an 18 in? blue Carlon. Or a 22 in? grey Slater. Or a metal gangable box. Or a gem box. Or a handi box. Or even a bell box.... if it's a device box, someone's gonna figure out how to stick it on a stud and use it.

 

[NewOnMyOwn]

Another problem is there are too many different types, styles and materials of boxes to create a single add-a-gang type contraption.

You may have an 18 in? blue Carlon. Or a 22 in? grey Slater. Or a metal gangable box. Or a gem box. Or a handi box. Or even a bell box.... if it's a device box, someone's gonna figure out how to stick it on a stud and use it.

Very true! But in most of those situations, a metal gem box would work if the device screw holes were offset to one side just a small amount. Then the electrician installing it would have to worry about how far away from the existing box to install the new one ("contraption" as you called it ). A pair of madison bars later and you have a new device installed next to existing devices in half the time but for the same money and less haggle with the old material.


I'm not talking about sheetrock and existing plastic boxes with Romex, those are no problem to remove.

It's the old plaster ready to crumple mixed with the metal boxes stuck to the stud with plaster over the face (since the box is set back 5/8") and BX tightly stapled to the studs coming in the top and bottom of the box with the already bad insulation on the conductors now getting scrapped off even worse when trying to get the box out.

 

[danickstr]

people who are too cheap to fix the wall should maybe consider a duplex switch. Come in 3-way/sp or side by side dimmers, both of which would solve most problems, if you can get the wire into the box and insert your KO device.

 

[readydave8]

Very true! But in most of those situations, a metal gem box would work if the device screw holes were offset to one side just a small amount. Then the electrician installing it would have to worry about how far away from the existing box to install the new one ("contraption" as you called it ). A pair of madison bars later and you have a new device installed next to existing devices in half the time but for the same money and less haggle with the old material.


I'm not talking about sheetrock and existing plastic boxes with Romex, those are no problem to remove.

It's the old plaster ready to crumple mixed with the metal boxes stuck to the stud with plaster over the face (since the box is set back 5/8") and BX tightly stapled to the studs coming in the top and bottom of the box with the already bad insulation on the conductors now getting scrapped off even worse when trying to get the box out.

I've heard you can modify the mounting yoke to slide device further over to make the cover plate fit?

 

[480sparky]

I've heard you can modify the mounting yoke to slide device further over to make the cover plate fit?

Some people get creative and drill the holes in the yokes out, but it ain't worth it to me. I'd rather put the correct box in, even if it's a bee-otch to replace.

 

[NewOnMyOwn]

Some people get creative and drill the holes in the yokes out, but it ain't worth it to me. I'd rather put the correct box in, even if it's a bee-otch to replace.

I agree with that. I wouldn't want to mess with the device.

 

[jmellc]

Very true! But in most of those situations, a metal gem box would work if the device screw holes were offset to one side just a small amount. Then the electrician installing it would have to worry about how far away from the existing box to install the new one ("contraption" as you called it ). A pair of madison bars later and you have a new device installed next to existing devices in half the time but for the same money and less haggle with the old material.


I'm not talking about sheetrock and existing plastic boxes with Romex, those are no problem to remove.

It's the old plaster ready to crumple mixed with the metal boxes stuck to the stud with plaster over the face (since the box is set back 5/8") and BX tightly stapled to the studs coming in the top and bottom of the box with the already bad insulation on the conductors now getting scrapped off even worse when trying to get the box out.

Yes, that is a messy situation. I've seen 2 foot sections of plaster come down when you try to cut a clean hole and get hung on a piece of wood lathe. And yes, that old bx cable is the worst I've seen for insulation deteriorating. Worse than knob and tube in some cases. In some cases, you could put a 2 gang Wiremold box over the old one, drill the back to match the screw holes of the old box and use plastic anchors and screws on the other side. Chase nipple new wire through to the old box. Keep it so you can easily remove the box for access to the original. Some people are ok with surface mounting, some don't want it. Or if box is deep enough, you could put a stack switch. They come in duplex and triplex.

 

[NewOnMyOwn]

I actually do the stack switches often, I'll give the customer the choice and many times they don't mind the stack switches. A magnet and some jack chain make this a pretty easy installation, but sometimes you can have box fill issues

 

[LarryFine]

In some cases, you could put a 2 gang Wiremold box over the old one, drill the back to match the screw holes of the old box and use plastic anchors and screws on the other side. Chase nipple new wire through to the old box.

Or just get the Wiremold box with a rear cut-out, called an extension or strarter box, item #V5747-2 or -3:

 

[jaylectricity]

I personally do not like that Wiremold stuff, but I'm learning that people don't cringe the way I do when they know they'll be able to get the functionality that they're looking for.

 

[mjf]

Another option

Another option

My experience has been about 85% rip out old box-install new, 13% add switch under, over or near existing, and 2% add a stacked switch.

If I could cut in an old work gem box next to the existing box every time it would be nice............maybe they could produce cover plates with extra space between toggle slots!! or adjustable cover plates

 

[LarryFine]

If I could cut in an old work gem box next to the existing box every time it would be nice............maybe they could produce cover plates with extra space between toggle slots!! or adjustable cover plates

You could always use a 3-gang plate with a dummy device in the middle position.

I, too, opt for removing and replacing the box whenever possible. I'm good at it.