Long wire loops in sub panel.

[Confused]

I'm not really related to the electrical field, but I wanted an answer from the best, so here I am.

I'm buying a newly constructed home (1800 sq ft,) and had a home inspection done. In the electrical panel, the black (power) wires come in through the holes in sides near the top of the box then loop all the way to the bottom of the panel and then back up to the individual breakers. None of them are secured to the cabinet at any point and some are at least 18 to 24 inches long if not longer!

When the panel cover was opened, these super long wire loops "popped" out of the box like they were on springs! It was hard to even get the panel cover back on. In addition, several white wires were being used as power wires and were not marked as such.

My builder says that the panel passed the 'code inspection' from the city and he's not going to fix anything that was already passed no matter what any home inspectore says.

What do any of you say?

Thanks

 

[Confused]

Additional Info

Additional Info

I neglected to mention that our town has adopeted the 2008 NEC, 2006 ICC, 2006 IBC and 2006 IRC. If that matters to anyone per their response.

Thanks

 

[charlie b]

The extra long wires are not a code violation, and they would not present an electrical hazard. It might be a bit of an inconvenience, should there be a need to add a circuit later. If you are concerned, you can have an electrician come in and shorten some of the wires. But there is no immediate need to do so.

I believe that the use of white wires as a “power wire” (this tells me they are connected to a breaker) is not allowed. But I had only a couple minutes to look it up in the code book, and I could not find the explicit rule against it.

Let me remind you that our forum rules do not allow us to provide you any assistance, should you wish to do any electrical work on your own. But we can answer questions of this type. I am sorry that I just don’t have a more complete answer for you.

 

[Confused]

Thanks for a quick reply. I absolutely do not want to do any electrical work myself. Yes, the white wire was going into a breaker. I will hire an electrician to further evaluate the panel if that is the concensus here. I was just concerned that with those long loops being under pressure they could shift or something and touch something they aren't supposed to.

 

[jxofaltrds]

White wires --- AFCI's? GFCI's?

 

[jumper]

If the white wire is part of a cable, it can be a hot conductor. 200.7(C)(1). It should have remarked as hot.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

White wires --- AFCI's? GFCI's?

I with Mike on this. White wires going to breakers are probably AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupters). Does the breaker have a small button on it?

Also GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupters also have the white wire going to the breaker. This does not mean it is a power wire.

Any 240V circuits may also utilize a white wire from a cable but the white wire in this case should be tapped or marked other than white.

 

[Confused]

The home inspector said "White wires, (normally neutral wires) in the sub-panel are attached to breakers and not properly marked.

The builder won't even have that done and I'm not sticking my hands any where near it.

This was not a GFCI or AFCI breaker.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The home inspector said "White wires, (normally neutral wires) in the sub-panel are attached to breakers and not properly marked.

The builder won't even have that done and I'm not sticking my hands any where near it.

This was not a GFCI or AFCI breaker.

I would not loose sleep over this issue. In the panel it is pretty obvious it is hot. Both issues are not worth the fight but good luck.

 

[infinity]

IMO those long loops of wire are messy and completely unnecessary. You can have your electrician shorten them if you so choose.

 

[Confused]

I forgot to mention one other thing. This house was just completed a week ago and there are AFCI's only in the bedrooms. The builder won't fix that either.

 

[Cavie]

The extra long wires are not a code violation, and they would not present an electrical hazard. It might be a bit of an inconvenience, should there be a need to add a circuit later. If you are concerned, you can have an electrician come in and shorten some of the wires. But there is no immediate need to do so.

I believe that the use of white wires as a ?power wire? (this tells me they are connected to a breaker) is not allowed. But I had only a couple minutes to look it up in the code book, and I could not find the explicit rule against it.

Let me remind you that our forum rules do not allow us to provide you any assistance, should you wish to do any electrical work on your own. But we can answer questions of this type. I am sorry that I just don?t have a more complete answer for you.

No need to look Charlie. What wires a used all the time with romex. 2 wire black white to 220 votts come to mind??

 

[jxofaltrds]

I forgot to mention one other thing. This house was just completed a week ago and there are AFCI's only in the bedrooms. The builder won't fix that either.

Simple answer.

Go find another builder and buy his home.

 

[ty]

Another simple answer: call the Electrical Inspector that signed the Inspection sticker.
If you are under the 2008 NEC, then AFCI breakers are required in other areas than bedrooms (unless there is a local ammendment).

The other issue with the wires, is not the builder's problem to take care of.

 

[mivey]

The builder won't fix that either.

Just because it passed inspection does not mean there are no problems. I can guarantee you the inspectors miss stuff. Have you thought about touching base with the city inspector?

If things do not meet code now, you may have to fix them when you sell the house. Reduce the price you pay by the amount to fix it, have the builder fix it and you can haggle over the price, or just buy a different house.

 

[Cavie]

I forgot to mention one other thing. This house was just completed a week ago and there are AFCI's only in the bedrooms. The builder won't fix that either.

What date did your town adopt the code? What date was your permit pulled? This may answer you AFC questions. White wires are indeed allowed to be connected to to the breakers and used as (power wires).There are a lot questions and you may have no problems a all except long wires in the panel that you think are not correct but are not a code issue. Call a licensed electrican, not a home inspector, and ask him to explain things to you.

 

[electricmanscott]

IMO those long loops of wire are messy and completely unnecessary. You can have your electrician shorten them if you so choose.

I agree. Who thinks that making such a mess out of a panel is a good idea.

Nix the loops guys.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Two things come to mind. First, I agree with Cavie, probably the AC, but the whites should have been taped. Second, just because the house was completed in 2010 does not mean that it was built to the 2008 code. If it's a tract of houses it's the code cycle that the plans were checked and approved under.

 

[sameguy]

From what you have told us.
1) long wires- not a problem, help if you ever need to move a breaker.
2)white wire on breaker-not a problem, AC, Heat, Cook top, reIding the wire is only to help the do it your selfer,
how ever not to code.
You have a subpanel also? Then you can see where long wires could come in handy if you add new loads.
Sounds ok, go buy a plug tester at the box store, if all the" plugs" check out right I wouldn't worry; if they are wrong
get an Electrician.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm buying a newly constructed home (1800 sq ft,) and had a home inspection done.

I've never heard of anyone having a new house independently inspected. Interesting.

My builder says that the panel passed the 'code inspection' from the city and he's not going to fix anything that was already passed no matter what any home inspectore says.

If the first half of this sentence is true, he has a point about the second half, so confirm the first half.

You might want to call the inspector and ask if he'd meet you and look at this stuff "again" just to reaffirm that it passed.