Garage collapsed

[shaw0486]

You may be right -failure is near two strings of penetrations - I'll bet someone is looking to pass the buck on it, since the load capacity is reduced by those penetrations being so high - but it is debatable.


Those holes come pre drilled in the deck....

 

[petersonra]

Could be a lot of things. My guess is design flaw or built wrong in the first place.

 

[steve66]

According to our structural engineer, parking garages are only required to be designed for 40 pounds per square foot, and that's only about 30" of snow.

Steve

 

[e57]

You may be right -failure is near two strings of penetrations - I'll bet someone is looking to pass the buck on it, since the load capacity is reduced by those penetrations being so high - but it is debatable.


Those holes come pre drilled in the deck....

Get enough people in a finger pointing party and the bluest collar in the room is to blame... In pic #3 they appear (even if pre-drilled) to have been done with a roto-hammer and blown out one or both sides - not a poured or cored penetration and may even go through steel.

 

[iwire]

Get enough people in a finger pointing party and the bluest collar in the room is to blame... In pic #3 they appear (even if pre-drilled) to have been done with a roto-hammer and blown out one or both sides - not a poured or cored penetration and may even go through steel.

Typically they are rectangular holes that are cast in place, we have done a few of these decks, they are defiantly not drilled out (at least the ones I have worked with)

 

[don_resqcapt19]

We just did one and the holes were in the same location and the pre-caster had used styrofoam as the block out to make the hole. You just knock the foam out to use the hole.

 

[e57]

According to our structural engineer, parking garages are only required to be designed for 40 pounds per square foot, and that's only about 30" of snow.

Steve

That might leave out the skid-steer &/or most larger trucks... :roll: For that matter most individuals over 20 years old. Sounds fine for a 'roof' - maybe not a parking structure with combined snow and vehicular traffic as a live load. Snow loaded roofs are yep - ~40lbs/Sq' and so are parking structures - what about when both are at play????

Either way - I thing some snow melting equipment would have been best at the get go.

 

[e57]

Typically they are rectangular holes that are cast in place, we have done a few of these decks, they are defiantly not drilled out (at least the ones I have worked with)

Yes you can see them better in pick #1...

 

[charlie k.]

Shaw, where is this garage? I have not heard about a collapse on the news.

Charlie

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

The first one i did did not have the holes and gotta tell you it was a real pain going to the end and going back to run 10 feet. The ones now out have the holes already in it. Does require thinking before running emt ,so not my problem. No way in h that i would drill thru one of them. This problem was simply the lack of thinking what snow can weigh. Like most things usually 5 or more times stronger than normal conditions require. Question on 3 rd picture , did the crack on the T happen from the fall or was it the cause of slipping off support ? Only the lawyers win in this. Fact is someone goofed and is paying. That will cost thousands to prove who. A car really is not all that heavy based on 9 feet by 30 feet for typical car and weight. That same area with 3 feet of compacted snow weighs far more. Do hope we get posted after the case is solved.

 

[mivey]

According to our structural engineer, parking garages are only required to be designed for 40 pounds per square foot,
Steve

I hope I'm wearing snow shoes if I walk on anything he designed.:grin:

 

[steve66]

I hope I'm wearing snow shoes if I walk on anything he designed.:grin:

He did say that's the code. Not necessarily how he would design something. But we all know how hard it is to convince an owner that the design needs to be above and beyond the code I think his comment was that it was time for a code change.

Anyhow, I thought the same thing at first. It doesn't sound like it would hold up a person, much less a truck.

But thats designed over a large area. And if you figure a truck weighs 2000 lbs, and is maybe 18'x8', that's only about 14 lbs per square foot.

And I don't know if that includes any safety factors. That might mean you start with a 40 lb/sq ft design load, and actually design the structure to stand up to 2 or 3 times that weight.

Steve

 

[iwire]

If I remember the design load on amusement rides is 140 lbs per seat.

Something to think about when getting on with a bunch of fatties. :grin:

 

[petersonra]

If I remember the design load on amusement rides is 140 lbs per seat.

Something to think about when getting on with a bunch of fatties. :grin:

I resemble that remark. :grin:

 

[mivey]

If I remember the design load on amusement rides is 140 lbs per seat.

Something to think about when getting on with a bunch of fatties. :grin:

Well since I'm not likely to be paired up with Nicole Richie (~90 lbs), I'd better ride by myself. :grin:

 

[petersonra]

I hope I'm wearing snow shoes if I walk on anything he designed.

The load is over the entire structure, not every square foot of it. It has to be able to hold 40 pounds on EVERY square foot of surface simultaneously.

Ice weighs about 60 pounds per cubic foot so its likely that 10 or 15 feet of snow is well beyond that limit, but it does not seem likely that 3 feet of even packed snow would be that heavy.

I suspect some lawyers will make some money off of it, and someone's insurance company will pay out a fair amount of money. Should be interesting.

 

[mivey]

The load is over the entire structure, not every square foot of it.

It was a joke.

 

[iwire]

It was a joke.

Yeah it was a knee slapper. :grin:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Most parking spots are 9 feet by 20 feet that = 180 sf x 40 = 7200 and there also is the 20 feet in the center for trafic that is usually holding nothing. Really no danger. What can get scarry is how material gets stored while under construction. Not uncommon to see a pallet full of 5 gallon buckets that could easily be overload for a small spot.

 

[iwire]

What can get scarry is how material gets stored while under construction.

I agree the big stacks of drywall worry me sometimes.