Grounding to hose bib at rear of house.

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N844AA

N844AA

Member
Location
Los Angeles
The service panel must be grounded to all available electrodes. The cold water pipe enters the house at the front but my service panel is at the rear next to a hose bib. I connect to the hose bib and that serves as my grounding electrode.

250.52(A)(1) reads:

"Interior metal water piping located more than 5 feet from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as part of the grounding electrode system..."

The hose bib I clamp to is on the exterior of the building, it is not "interior metal piping" even though it is 60 feet away from the point the water service enters the building.

I have been doing this for years and have never had an inspector issue a correction, I assume my reading of the code is correct.

What say you?
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I'll play your "word game" :)
250.52(A)(1) identifies a metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 10 ft as a grounding electrode.
Assuming your hose bibb is external, but does not have piping in direct contact with the earth for 10 ft it is not an electrode.
Granted, by pure wording, you can connect to a pipe within 5 ft of it's entering the building, but 250.52(A)(1) also states that interior metal shall not be used as a conductor to interconnect the electrodes, so, if you wish to connect to your hose bibb, fine :grin:, but to meet 250.52 you will need something other than the interior water piping to connect to the INCOMING SUPPLY water if it is an electrode.
Since the incoming pipe is an electrode and you must connect to all electrodes and you can not use interior piping to make this connection, I would ask to see how you met 250.52(A)(1)

no fair you deleted your "challanging" post :)
 
N844AA

N844AA

Member
Location
Los Angeles
augie47 said:
no fair you deleted your "challanging" post :)
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm sorry, you're responding to a post I deleted. I was being pretty slick and weasely about the language of this code section. After I posted it I thought better of it so I deleted it, but unfortunately you were in the process of responding to it.

:)
 
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dana1028

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco Bay area
N844AA said:
I have been doing this for years and have never had an inspector issue a correction, I assume my reading of the code is correct.

What say you?
Click to expand...

This is the sad part. Contractors look to the inspector to verify compliance/correct installation of their work.

When incorrect work is consistently passed they have every right to think they are doing the right thing...and they end up passing this incorrect information on to others.:mad:
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I wouldn't want to look at a GEC and a clamp every time I turned on and off the hose bib.
 
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mikkel1

Member
Location
Springfield, Il.
Grounding at hose bib

Grounding at hose bib

I'm not sure I understand, are you using a ground pipe clamp on the outside of the house, and then bringing a conductor into the service panel for your grounding? This hose bib is actually originating from the interior of the house and is approx. 55 feet away from the incoming water supply correct? Is the hose bib piping in direct contact with the earth ground as specified as a minimum requirement of the code? If not then it's an extentsion of the water piping system which is more than five feet from the entrance, thereby making it non code compliant
 
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mikkel1

Member
Location
Springfield, Il.
Grounding to hose bib at rear of house

Grounding to hose bib at rear of house

Just a follow up to your question, what happens when there's a problem with the hose bib (possible rupture due to freezing conditions) and a plumbers cuts it out to replace it and he gets between ground and a possible electrical problem inside the house???
 
M

MDECONTRACTOR

Member
Silly me, but is this not clearly laziness? Why not run a bond wire from the panel...through the house...connect within 5' of the pipe entering the house. No more debate. Why would anyone place a bond clamp on a hose bib anyway. I would certainly have a word with my contractor if I saw such a thing on my residence, whether or not it passed code. The water system needs to be bonded anyway (per 250-104), why not do it with one wire and a couple clamps instead of that way? Also, as the one post said, this pipe originates interior and is still subject to being effectively disconnected from ground if someone places a piece of PEX in the middle of that pipe run...the whole purpose ot that particular code.
 
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